Waiters Say Diners Could Use Tips on Tipping

[robfl]

From the Associated Press -

I thought the average was 15% turns out I was wrong according to this article!

NEW YORK (Sept. 13) - Waiting tables is a stressful job and sometimes not even lucrative, given servers' sticky reliance on tips for income.

In some states, restaurants are only legally required to pay as little as $2 or $3 an hour. So if a server earns $30 in tips on a bad night, he could feasibly walk out having earned less than minimum wage after tipping out the bartender and busboys (a common practice in most restaurants).

To level the playing field, waiters are taking action. Some are resorting to guerrilla tactics - it's not uncommon for waiters to personally confront stingy tippers, or to blog about them on sites such as WaiterRant.Net.

One former waiter, Yakup Ulutas, is proposing restaurants change the system. Ulutas, a 36 year-old restaurant manager in Atlanta, founded a nonprofit organization, Fairtip.org, to persuade restaurants to implement an automatic 20 percent service fee on every check. He estimates 2,500 waiters have joined.

You'd be hard-pressed to find a server who wouldn't love to see his or her employer slap an automatic tip on to every check. But wouldn't it make more sense for restaurants to hike prices by 20 percent and raise workers' salaries?

"That wouldn't work," Yakup says. "Many restaurants wouldn't be able to afford to pay higher wages."

The low-margin restaurant business is a notoriously difficult one. Raising server wages could easily zap the profits of small to mid-sized restaurants.

But diners have also seen a rapid rise in the tipping rate. Zagat Survey, which surveys the top restaurants nationwide, found that the average tip has increased from to 18.7 percent in 2006 from 17.75 percent in 2000.

At least one academic thinks that if the tipping rate rises too high, eating out will become prohibitive for many people, and restaurant sales will stall.

"Tipping is about buying social approval, and the way you do that is to at least tip an average amount, but most people want to tip a little bit better than average. That exerts an upward pressure on tips," says Michael Lynn, an associate professor at Cornell University School of Hotel Administration.

It would make sense for the restaurant industry to establish a norm before tipping rates move up to the point of pricing diners out of the market, he said.

While most restaurants already charge an automatic service fee for large parties, at least one restaurant began the practice of charging an automatic 20 percent gratuity, or "autograt," as it is sometimes called, on every check.

Per Se, a pricey New York restaurant started by star chef Thomas Keller, caused a public outcry when it implemented a 20 percent service fee last year. All prix fixe menus at Per Se cost $210, according to the restaurant's web site, so assuming customers spend about $100 for wine, a tip is likely to total around $60. Still, the restaurant said no patrons have refused to pay the service fee, and some guests actually tip above the required amount.

It may sound like a lucrative arrangement, but some waiters would rather take their chances and brave the risk of not making money.

"For as much disappointment as there is in waiting tables, regulating tips might detract from the sense that if you do your job well, you'll be rewarded," says Melissa Klein, a 25 year-old waitress at Lodge restaurant in Brooklyn, N.Y.

It's a common belief - that tips are based on service - but Lynn argues it's all wrong. Research has shown that tips are rarely based on the quality of service, and are usually determined arbitrarily.

"Servers think there's a relationship between tips and service, but there isn't. How sunny it is outside literally has as big of an impact on a tip as the service," Lynn says.

One study showed that when waitresses wore flowers in their hair they earned 17 percent more than when they didn't. Another study suggests that waiters who squat beside tables receive an average tip of 18 percent, versus a 15 percent tip received by waiters who stand next to their tables.

Some waiters concede that tipping behavior has very little to do with service. Theresa Burkhart, a 31 year-old waitress and actress in Manhattan, says overtippers tend to overtip regardless of service, and undertippers tend to undertip; Canadians and Brits often tip 10 percent, while Japanese customers tip around 20 percent.

Burkhart herself says she tips a minimum of 20 percent across the board.

"I find it unacceptable for people not to know that the tipping rate is 20 percent," Burkhart said.

The sentiment is widely shared on the Internet; a database started on one Web site - bitterwaitress.com - allows servers across the country to submit the names of customers who tipped less than 17 percent. Actress Sandra Bernhard is listed in the database for having skipped out on a tip after eating a $120 comped dinner at a Rochester, N.Y. club where she performed.

Cheapskates can stretch servers to the limit - in one 1989 incident, a waiter attacked two diners with a knife, inflicting minor injuries, over a $2 to $3 tip on a $50 check.

While public humiliation may be a low blow, it's still preferable to stabbing stingy tippers.

[carys]

What is the point in tipping then if it is automatically 20% regardless of the standard of service you get , shouldn't it just be a standard service charge ?
I have to recieve extremely bad service in order not to tip but to be honest by then the manager is probably involved anyway as it would have to have been really bad ! The service industry in the US is so much better as they " earn their tips " . It sounds like they need to tackle the minimum wage issue and then the tips could be shared with the restauranteurs to make up for the deficit caused by the higher wages . Win win then isn't it ? But thanks Rob 20 % it is .

[icatqman]

Thanks for this. i agree with carys they need to to sort out their minimum wage issues rather than adopt guerrilla tactics.
An attack from a waiter will only ensure I utilise my collapsible baseball bat!

[JaneSi]

I usually tip 15% in the states and yes it is reliant on service. If the service is good, the waiting person friendly then I might consider more. However if the service is bad and the wait person surly, then they will be lucky to get 10%. If they are moaning about not earning enough, then as far as I'm concerned they should raise the basic pay. I won't be bullied into paying more if I don't think it's worth it.

[LizzyBear]

I think it's largely a cultural difference. As a rule people in the US eat out a lot more than over here and it's more manageable for famillies on lower incomes because of the low prices (even with a tip added on) I reckon most people here would have a takeaway before eating out due to the cost issue.
I think something has to give, I mean if the average tip keeps increasing does that mean it will eventually be 100% of the meal cost?! =/
I've never had bad service in the US but if I did I would not hesitate to complain to the manager and/or give a lower than average tip or even none at all if it warranted this.

[Sue]

If we are not going to leave a tip - we inform them and tell them why - the supervisor/manager if available too. We usually also say (truthfully), that we will not return - perhaps they like that BUT they cannot know what the problem is unless you tell them.
Having said that, I can only think of one occasion in 5 visits where this was necessary in Orlando. Generally, we enjoy a banter with our servers, leave a minumum 15%, always rounded up and not down, 20% if we feel they have been very good. Doing the DDP next trip, gratuities are included, but I know that if we feel we have had a very good service; we will be inclined to leave an additional tip (if Disney let them accept?)

[wendye]

I usually tip 15% in the states and yes it is reliant on service. If the service is good, the waiting person friendly then I might consider more. However if the service is bad and the wait person surly, then they will be lucky to get 10%. If they are moaning about not earning enough, then as far as I'm concerned they should raise the basic pay. I won't be bullied into paying more if I don't think it's worth it.

I agree, especially considering as in Europe the average is 10-15%. As emotive as this subject is it isn't the customers job to sort out the wages of the server.

[obizzymad]

We tipped 15% for standard service and up to 20% if the service was good. When we first went we always understood it was:
10% for buffet style
15% For Table Service.

The first time this is what we left, mainly because we didnt know any different, not that we were being tight.

Also we were told that you should only tip on Adult meals, as servers dont get taxed on the childrens. (i dont know how true that is) however we always tipped on the full bill amount and if the kids meals theory was true we just classed it as a bonus for the server.

I think sometimes its unfair that servers slag some brits off, as there is so much conflicting advice, and unless you go on sites like this you may not know the rules of tipping. (the family we travelled with this time didnt even know that they were taxed on the assumption they got tips)

[John]

They are there to serve you food...not exactly rocket science, I think they have a cheek.

[clairelouise]

I only tip if i get good service and nice food, call me tight but if i have to ask for a refill on my coke instead of just being brought one then im afraid No tip ;) Oh and i also dont tip if i have no intention of returning to a restaurant either
(I know im going to get slated now but im just being honest :) )

We once went to Tgis on I Drive and the total was $32 we put down a $50 and the waitress had the cheek to ask if we wanted change, so we didnt tip her :mad2:

Claire :)

[freckles]

I find the whole tipping thing embarrassing and difficult to get right. I would much prefer that they added a bit onto the prices on the menu and said "service included" - as it should be. Why else do you go to eat out?!!
I usually tip because I feel I should; very rarely do I feel that I've had such good service that I happily leave a decent amount. Often it depends what change I've got on me anyway!

(I hate it at the hairdresser's too; it seems patronising!)

:blush:

[digdisney]

I agree with freckles,

The whole tipping thing is drove me mad.

I was on the DDP and a couple of times we had no money for tipping on us, Although 18% is included for service i felt rude not to tip. At le-cellier during our meal all we thought about was we wouldnt be able to leave a tip. We managed to scrape together a measly 2 dollars. We virtually ran out of the place as we didnt want to offend our server.

At sizzlers we were told we had to tip 20%, This was for the worst buffet breakfast in the world. Ants on the food, really awful food aswell. We should have left nothing! but left 10% because we feel we have to.

I think its a shame they have to rely on tips. A tip should be a perk of the job if you give good service.

[LizzyBear]

Just a few points I wanted to reply about from reading this thread again
If the food is bad that's probably not the server's fault as they just serve the food, in which case you should complain to the manager and/or the cook.
Also, in the US the tip is literally seen as a service charge so I do think it's a bit off when people don't tip at all if the service has been adequate. If you don't want to pay the service charge then don't eat out, maybe that's not the way it's done in the UK but it is in the US. When in Rome and all that..
I don't think people should be obliged to tip more than the average if they don't want to, but to not tip at all is rather mean IMO unless the service was really terrible and the manager won't help. Maybe being a server doesn't require a lot of 'brain power' by some people's standards but it's still hard work. I don't know if it's cos I don't have a well-paid job either so I appreciate how hard a lot of servers work for not always good pay but i'd never 'stiff' someone without good reason.

[Dawn]

We miscalculated the tip at the Garden Grill once and didn't leave very much. A genuine error on our part. Our server literally chased us out of the restaurant and threw our change back at us. :eek:

[Mike]

We miscalculated the tip at the Garden Grill once and didn't leave very much. A genuine error on our part. Our server literally chased us out of the restaurant and threw our change back at us. :eek:

..ouch!:D

The problem I have with tipping is that at the premium restaurants (WDW etc) where the meal bill is probably $100 or so +, the server will get many times more than the poor souls who work at Perkins or similar... it should be a fixed amount per 'service', adjustable up or down for poor-excellent attention.

[deejay]

15% - 20% is the norm; when in Rome...

[FLGirl-UKNow]

For those that are confused here is a guideline:

10% for Buffet - This can even be at your own discression. This is basically a polite gesture to the person that is helping you but not serving you.

15% for lunch service - This is a good rule of thumb for all sit down restaurants when eating between 11:30-4:30. Any point after that I would revert to the 20% dinner tipping.

20% for dinner service - Unless you are at a fine dining restaurant (where service is usually added anyway....and DOUBLE CHECK YOUR BILL so as not to pay twice)...20% is the typical amount paid. If you feel they didn't do a good enough job drop that down a bit.

I totally respect the 'when in Rome' approach.


Having said the above, I must say that I have a hard time with the fact that there are people (as posted above) who don't tip soley on the principal they aren't going back or that it wasn't an absolute fantastic experience. Why is that ok? (and no I don't work in the food industry) Not to mention that the next person sitting at that servers table will probably get bad service due to putting them in a state.

If there is a problem with your meal or if service is that bad let a manager know.

It is very important to point out that a lot of restaurants have a 'fine print' policy with tables of 6-8 or more. They will probably add the gratuity to the bill to ensure proper payment. Please check your bill (even if the line is blank where it says TIP ....look at the itemized area) before adding your tip. You don't want to pay this twice. (although your server would love you :d: )

[Nicksgirl]

Sorry but am I the only one who thinks 20% tip is too much.
15% okay, but 20% ???


Yes, I tip always, but I am sorry, Holidays now are certainly not cheap, most places have put their prices up, anyone with children I really dont know how they do it, we are a couple, but couples with children especially when you have the parks which are geared for little ones who of course want everything. The price of toys and games is well over the top.
But then expecting to get 20% tip with nearly every meal is getting crazy.

I'm sorry if you tip 20% lucky you - but speaking as one who is on limited funds this year because of certain circumstances, 15% to us is going to have to be enough.

[Villainlover]

Also the tips are shared with the busboys/hostesses/chefs etc ... so you are paying not only for the services of your waiter/waitress but other staff too.

I have nothing against not tipping if you have terrible service, but sometimes it isn't your waitresses fault but the hostess.
We found this out one night in our favourite restaurant .. the hostess gave us to a girl who already had a table of about 20 and a table of 14.. the 20 were very demanding and she kep apologising, but it really wasn't her fault.

also if the food is bad .. that is not your servers fault and so the complaint should be directed to the kitchen..

in all my 11 trips I have only ever left no tip once .. and that was due to the waitress being rude and patronising .. but that was the only reason..cos we received our food and drinks ...it was just the 'way' she was with some of our party..

my pet hate is people who have no intention of tipping even when the waitress bends over backwards for them, and the comment about not having a refill filled automatically is not necessarily a bad thing as if everyones glass was constantly refilled then imagine the waste!!
I know I dont mind asking for a refill....not that I get them free mind as I usually have a lager or some wine ;) but others in my party do.

[paulac]

An attack from a waiter will only ensure I utilise my collapsible baseball bat!

lol, thats quite funny for you. ;)

Now, we always tip for good service, whether eating in a restuarant here or on holiday... but I often wonder when the United States of America are going to stop treating their waiters/waitresses like second class citizens and make sure they are paid a sensible minimum wage.

As somebody has already said, it shouldn't be up to the customer to make sure they earn enough to afford a decent standard of living.

Paula

[FLGirl-UKNow]

My approach on tipping is totally based on what is deemed as standard in that country. I understand that it may not be what is a normal routine in our every day life but if it is a standard for that country I feel the effort should be given to treat them that way...unless the service doesn't warrant it.

If you were in the food service industry and you were cheated on a tip would you think it was ok because they didn't have the money to pay because of personal financial situations? The answer would be, no.

Again, the amount I noted above was as a guideline for those that are confused about how/what to tip. Personally, I generally tip 18-20% for dinner service with 20% being a great experience. There is nothing wrong with 15...it just wouldn't be a dinner standard.

--------------

Sadly minimum wage will always be just that....minimum wage. The problem actually is partly to blame at the employer level as well. They have the final decision what to base the hourly rate at due to it being a 'tipping' industry. Some make very little hourly and some make standard minimum wage. It just depends on the place....and the greed to make money for the business.

Personally I couldn't do it (work in the food industry as wait staff). I couldn't handle the hard hours, wage and the unfortunate attitude that you often get by patrons.

[Lisa-R]

Hi Rob

Thanks for posting the article.

This a very contraversial subject and probably one of the subjects that causes the most provocation of opinions on the Dibb.

I am of the 'when in Rome' party, but on the other hand my DH (and clutcher of the sacred credit card and wallet) is adverse to leaving a decent tip! We have this debate before every US holiday and sometimes have argued when at a restaurant about what would be a fair tip. :confused2

Having waited at tables myself, I know how disappointing it can be to be left a pittance of a tip or a couple of two pence pieces and a load of pocket fluff :nonono: I totally sympathise with the servers and have admiration for them as it is not always an easy job.

I think it would be fairer for everyone if servers were paid a decent hourly rate and so their tips were a nice added bonus but not relied upon totally.

I too am a bit over-awed and sometimes confused by what I should be leaving, especially if the food was not as good as expected. But as previously said, poor quality food is not the server's fault.

I'm sure that during my next holiday (soon), me and DH will be doing the old 'tip dilemma' .

I always chuck a few more $$ on the table as we leave and he never knows!!!:d:

[lainey5565]

I find the whole tipping thing embarrassing and difficult to get right. I would much prefer that they added a bit onto the prices on the menu and said "service included" - as it should be. Why else do you go to eat out?!!
I usually tip because I feel I should; very rarely do I feel that I've had such good service that I happily leave a decent amount. Often it depends what change I've got on me anyway!

(I hate it at the hairdresser's too; it seems patronising!)

:blush:
i totally agree..its so embarrasing..me and DH haggle over this all the time we usually leave 20% unless the service is diabolical:confused2 which has only happened maybe once.

[icatqman]

lol, thats quite funny for you. ;)

Now, we always tip for good service, whether eating in a restuarant here or on holiday... but I often wonder when the United States of America are going to stop treating their waiters/waitresses like second class citizens and make sure they are paid a sensible minimum wage.

As somebody has already said, it shouldn't be up to the customer to make sure they earn enough to afford a decent standard of living.

Paula

Despite your comedic critical comments, I almost agree with your sentiments.Remove the pressure from the consumer, let the employer pay more. When you think how much we pay to travel over there and spend our "hard earned" $$$$$$$$$ then tipping shouldnt be an issue.

We should start a tipping league, all you proud 20%ers can be in it.
Sorry, but I can't get hung up over tipping............on holiday......enjoying myself. The social status and work conditions of people in the US service indusry is just not my concern. After all, do you really think US citizens really care about our social problems??? No? I thought not.

There are NO hard and fast rules, do what you think is right for the circumstances. Sermon ended!

[clairelouise]

Despite your comedic critical comments, I almost agree with your sentiments.Remove the pressure from the consumer, let the employer pay more. When you think how much we pay to travel over there and spend our "hard earned" $$$$$$$$$ then tipping shouldnt be an issue.

We should start a tipping league, all you proud 20%ers can be in it.
Sorry, but I can't get hung up over tipping............on holiday......enjoying myself. The social status and work conditions of people in the US service indusry is just not my concern. After all, do you really think US citizens really care about our social problems??? No? I thought not.

There are NO hard and fast rules, do what you think is right for the circumstances. Sermon ended!


Well said :smile:

[vegasjohnny]

I own my own Taxi Business
I find that the Americans over here on holiday rarely tip and if they do they round it up to the nearest 50p/£1 . say if a fare is £4.30 give you £4.50 , or £4.80 give you £5 . Approx 4% . where as in the USA their taxi drivers expect a 15% minimum and if they dont get it they create bloody hell !
Those who live by the sword ...............

Cheers Big Ears !

[paulac]

There are NO hard and fast rules, do what you think is right for the circumstances.

Absolutely agree.

Paula

[icatqman]

Absolutely agree.

Paula

jeez Im scared now!!!!!!:grin:

[fredflintstone]

Maybe some are missing the point.
In the UK service is generally included. This might be 20% of the cost of the meal, you just dont know, as it's hidden.
In the US, service is not included and we are told 15-20%. That's why the food is so much cheaper, because it does not have the service included, like in the UK. But to be fair, like in rome you need to pay it. It's like Vat and sales tax. In the UK all prices for a meal include vat. It's in the price. In Us, sales tax is not and it will be added. But you pay the sales tax and do not object. It's the same with service. It's not iincluded and you need to pay it, just like vat. It's not an option (it's not generally optional in the UK it's included) most of the time). You should compare UK prices with US price plus tax plus 15-20% service. Makes it less cheap, but apples for apples. Don't quote I don't have much money. In the UK you pay it no choice, in the US you need to pay it, but you also have to have good service , otherwise you withhold or reduce it. You decide on service, but it should not be based on how much spare money you have, but on what you are expected to pay for service, just like tax.
Don't quote Americans in the UK. They are told in the UK , service is included like sales tax (vat) , therefore they have paid it. Any tip they give is over and above the norm (just like tipping more than 15-20% in US). Just like us, if we are told someone has already added a 17% service charge we do not add another 15-20% tip.

[Sue]

Big plug for the DDP then - tipping is in included. So stay in Disney and do that, alleviate any concerns or "begrudgements" - like it or not that is what some people here are doing.
As for Americans here - it is a redundant argument, they are told that service is included and at 17% tax (as opposed to their average 6% sales tax) - then they are correct in their behaviour.

[icatqman]

Big plug for the DDP then - tipping is in included. So stay in Disney and do that, alleviate any concerns or "begrudgements" - like it or not that is what some people here are doing.
As for Americans here - it is a redundant argument, they are told that service is included and at 17% tax (as opposed to their average 6% sales tax) - then they are correct in their behaviour.

Then maybe the best way ahead is for the US to include a sales tax too. This would result in no "begrudgements" (nice word), misunderstandings or attacks by waiters. As tourists we don't set the tax agenda.

As for sales tax, we already get hit in purchases outside the food sector. State tax, local tax etc..................tax, what an odious word.

Personally I dont have any begrudgements about tipping.

[Villainlover]

Hmmm .. I have yet to work or eat in a place in the UK that includes a service charge??

[forever florida]

Despite your comedic critical comments, I almost agree with your sentiments.Remove the pressure from the consumer, let the employer pay more. When you think how much we pay to travel over there and spend our "hard earned" $$$$$$$$$ then tipping shouldnt be an issue.

We should start a tipping league, all you proud 20%ers can be in it.
Sorry, but I can't get hung up over tipping............on holiday......enjoying myself. The social status and work conditions of people in the US service indusry is just not my concern. After all, do you really think US citizens really care about our social problems??? No? I thought not.

There are NO hard and fast rules, do what you think is right for the circumstances. Sermon ended!

I totally agree with this aswell

[Sue]

Hmmm .. I have yet to work or eat in a place in the UK that includes a service charge??

It's on the bottom of every menu Shelly, if it's not on the final bill - or should be!

[obizzymad]

I thought the VAT on meals in the UK went to the Government, and wasnt intended as a service charge, if it was a service charge would the waiters and waitresses get a cut, as the place i work, the waitresses rely on tips given and are only paid their hourly rate and are given nothing extra.

I'm not sure how it all works, as i am a receptionist and no one ever tips me:( i just get all the complaints:nonono: and go head over heals to help people

[Villainlover]

It's on the bottom of every menu Shelly, if it's not on the final bill - or should be!


Like I said service has never been included at anywhere I have worked or eaten... I am not saying that is is never included. In fact it staed at the bottom of the menu 'service NOT included'

[Villainlover]

but out of curiosity I had a search on the web .. First try I did was TGI Fridays menu at Leeds ...


Service is at your discretion, however an optional 10% will be added for parties of eight or more people.

so Like I said .. I have never come across this

Keep looking but have yet to see anywhere that has service or gratuity included...


another one http://www.jerichos.co.uk/Dining.htm#menu Gratuities are left to the discretion of the customer.
A service charge is not included.

[FLGirl-UKNow]

@fredflintstone - Thank you thank you thank you! I believe I was trying to say what you just did but didn't say it in the right manner. You hit it spot on. Well done and hopefully understood by all.

I'm sorry if I didn't go about it the right way. My intent was certainly to inform and not cause dispute.

Thanks!
:wavey:

[wendye]

I thought the VAT on meals in the UK went to the Government, and wasnt intended as a service charge, if it was a service charge would the waiters and waitresses get a cut, as the place i work, the waitresses rely on tips given and are only paid their hourly rate and are given nothing extra.

I'm not sure how it all works, as i am a receptionist and no one ever tips me:( i just get all the complaints:nonono: and go head over heals to help people

You have hit the nail on the head here. sorry fredflintstone but don't confuse sales tax or vat with service charge they are not the same thing at all. As far as I understand it the tax relevant in this case is "income tax" which is a very different thing. Service charge is just another name for the tip and is not a tax.

BTW just for the info servers in the uk do get taxed on an estimated amount of "tips" and like everyone else in this country based on the assumption that you are earning sufficent to pay tax they are taxed at least 20%. I know this for a fact as my DD works at Pizza Hut.

However I still stand by my earlier statement - It is about time the employers were made to pay them decent wages. I always leave a tip but the amount I leave is my decision not the servers I try to put a decent amount but if they don't like it tough - they should take it up with their employer not me!

Also just another bit of interesting info you might like to know on this topic. While we were in the Red Lodger near the west side of the 192 the manager came out to speak to the couple who were just leaving the next table to us and asked them why they were only leaving a very small tip (about $2 or $3 I think) and if there was any problem with the meal or service. Their reply was no there was nothing wrong that is the amount we choose to leave. This couple were American not British! So I think the saying about the pot calling the kettle should be brought to mind. Oh and just to add to this we left a 20% tip here because the server was excellent (they had the same server) but I do think that 20% is rather too much to expect from every person.

[Villainlover]

I believe that the servers in the US pay tax on expected tips and the government base this tax on food sales by that server ..
so if your food costs $50 befor tax then your server is taxed on the expected tip for that amount of food.. and it looks like that estimate is at least 18%

all their food sales are entered under their 'name' and they are taxed accordingly..
My bug bear with this is that it doesn't take anymore skill or time for a server to serve you a $10 bottle of wine or a $100 bottle...
but they are taxed according to their sales :confused2 as far as I know

[Chesterbhoy]

If I order a Steak and someone orders a pizza or a sandwich - why should I pay more for the same level of service?

We only tip if good service and recently have done it on a $ basis and NOT % - some waiters have not been impressed by the look on their faces

Guess what - we wont be going back to those places !!!

[wendye]

I believe that the servers in the US pay tax on expected tips and the government base this tax on food sales by that server ..
so if your food costs $50 befor tax then your server is taxed on the expected tip for that amount of food.. and it looks like that estimate is at least 18%

all their food sales are entered under their 'name' and they are taxed accordingly..
My bug bear with this is that it doesn't take anymore skill or time for a server to serve you a $10 bottle of wine or a $100 bottle...
but they are taxed according to their sales :confused2 as far as I know

Well in that case I stand, or rather sit corrected as clearly I have misunderstood how their tax is calculated. However I still feel that the employers should be paying a better rate.

[Tim_Bisley]

As has already been pointed out, it's an emotive subject. My general rule in the past for evening meals was 15% for ordinary service, 20% if it was excellent (which it often has been in Orlando). I had no idea you were expected to tip 20% now despite going every year, which highlights the confusion surrounding the issue. I'll probably now tip 20% consistently, but it will take something special for me to pay more than that.

On the plus side for my karma was how I treated every waiter on one holiday. Back when I was in uni, I went on a 21 day trip through Boston, New York and Orlando with my then girlfriend. It was my first trip to the States without my parents and I made the mistake of both filling in the 'tip' section of the credit card receipt and then also leaving the same amount on the table in cash! :stupid: I am at a loss today to explain how I thought this was how it was done. I'm sure the guy in Tony Roma's who had a $40 tip for serving two people loved me.

On the flip side, the one place I had an argument about a tip was at the Kobe restaurant on the 192. I was there with 3 friends and while I wanted to sit at the table where the chef cooks in front of you, the others didn't fancy this for some reason. The meal was the most expensive of the holiday anyway and I was shocked to see a mandatory service charge of 20% had been included on the bill. I knew this to be standard when you sit at one of the 'chef' tables, but not for standard waiter service. When we asked for it to be removed so we could leave a tip in cash (we would have left 15% despite the service being pretty poor), they refused. The argument eventually included the manager and half the staff, but they wouldn't budge. I wanted to leave enough cash to cover the food only, but we didn't have enough on us and my friends decided it was easier to let it go and try to forget about it. As you can tell, I still haven't!

[dreadnort]

well i'm confused, about what should be tipped but cleared up that its expected.

see you can only learn these tips here on the dibb

[Family Slave]

Having been a waitress myself, it can be really hard work if you are busy. However I would feel annoyed if the waitress on the other section, wasn't pulling her weight and was not as helpful as other waitresses and STILL got the same amount in tips.

I feel if you offer a good service then you should be rewarded for it. If you don't want to put the effort in, then maybe you are in the wrong industry.

[Sue]

The point has been made several times that the server is not at fault for bad food so therefore the tip is for their waiting skills only. It is a valid point then that why should you pay a percentage - if the table next to you, all have burgers (with fixings, lots of running around for server) and you all have meals at twice the price but with no extras needed from server - you are subsidising THEIR tip!!
Now I'm thinking too hard lol

[MTDancer]

I run a guest house with my hubby. We are on call 24/7 and rarely have a full day off. Last year we earned £350 each (yes, in the whole year) and hubby has a £3,000 pa pension. We are going to FL in Nov because we got a tax refund and have had a life policy mature so we are on way less than minimum wage. Now, if we get good service we WILL tip but when we give good service we just get a comment in the visitors book. It is not just servers over there who have a very poor wage

[Meezers]

I am always interested in these threads...and most times I ask a question no one has yet to answer.

I am a 9-1-1 operator here in the US. I make a little over double what is "minimum wage". I am lucky enough to have an employer who pays for my health insurance....however out of pocket costs just for prescriptions runs $180 a month....I am not eligible for any government assistance with food, housing, electricity...etc. I must supply my own uniforms and shoes....have no vision insurance whatsoever.

Can someone please tell me how a single income person in the UK would handle this. There are times when the choice is food or medication....paying rent and car payment are not optional....

[icatqman]

I am always interested in these threads...and most times I ask a question no one has yet to answer.

I am a 9-1-1 operator here in the US. I make a little over double what is "minimum wage". I am lucky enough to have an employer who pays for my health insurance....however out of pocket costs just for prescriptions runs $180 a month....I am not eligible for any government assistance with food, housing, electricity...etc. I must supply my own uniforms and shoes....have no vision insurance whatsoever.

Can someone please tell me how a single income person in the UK would handle this. There are times when the choice is food or medication....paying rent and car payment are not optional....

Whilst i sympathise with your current situation, I cannot see what this has to do with tipping????????

[LizzyBear]

I am always interested in these threads...and most times I ask a question no one has yet to answer.

I am a 9-1-1 operator here in the US. I make a little over double what is "minimum wage". I am lucky enough to have an employer who pays for my health insurance....however out of pocket costs just for prescriptions runs $180 a month....I am not eligible for any government assistance with food, housing, electricity...etc. I must supply my own uniforms and shoes....have no vision insurance whatsoever.

Can someone please tell me how a single income person in the UK would handle this. There are times when the choice is food or medication....paying rent and car payment are not optional....

This is basically what my bf has to do. He earns above the threshold for any sort of benefits and lives alone (24 year old male) He wears glasses and contact lenses and pays the full wack for these, as he would for dental care (he doesn't have a dentist though, it's hard to get an NHS one round here) and any other prescriptions. He just gets by really, as a lot of people do.

[fozzie bear]

Just repeating what previous posters are saying - you pay for service in the US. If the service is rubbish you have the opportunity to reduce your payment. However if it is OK then you are expected to pay 15% minimum.

You are perfectly entitled to pay less or nothing and if that is what you want to do fine, but you are just adding to the already growing reputation of Brits being tight and we will all suffer. By the way, having worked in the UK tourist industry I have always found US people more than generous, particularly ordinary working class people.

[mickey house]

I usually tip around 10%, to a maximum of 15% (that doesn't happen too often). One waitress wrote on our dinner bill (Grosvenor hotel Orlando) "It is customary to tip 15% - 20% in the USA." Suffice to say she got nothing!

a couple of trips ago we hired a car through Hertz, and we took a Hertz shuttle bus from Orlando airport to the car collection office which was a very short journey. The bus driver acted as though we had murdered his family because we didn't tip him!

I know a taxi driver, who has said the same as the post from a taxi driver on here, that most Americans visiting England rarely tip between 15% - 20%!

[val9]

Could any one tell me if I should tip at piccabues at the Dolphin.It is self service and we clear away after ourselves.Ive tried to watch what others do and no one seems to tip is this correct?

[LizzyBear]

Could any one tell me if I should tip at piccabues at the Dolphin.It is self service and we clear away after ourselves.Ive tried to watch what others do and no one seems to tip is this correct?

If no-one actually serves you anything (as in you place the order and they take it to your table) then you don't need to tip.

[icatqman]

Yesterday I had a wonderful Sunday Lunch in a country pub. The service, food(especially), attentiveness, atmosphere were superb. On the menu it stated recommended 10% for gratuities (Optional). I was so impressed I went out of my way to speak to the owner, congratulating her, and her staff for a wonderful lunch. I tipped 20%.
I post this because I recognised a hostelry that went out of its way to please the customer(not just waiting staff but everyone) We arrived without a booking and were taken care of immediately. THAT deserves recognition as opposed to someone saying "have a nice day" every few minutes and "expecting" a tip at the end of it all irrespective of the quality of the overall product. It is obvious that some Brits neither know what to do Re: tipping in the US or roll over and follow the pack.
As i have said before, there are no hard and fast rules. Good experience = Good tip.

(20% - I had to lie down afterwards!!!!!!)

[JAL]

I've noticed a distinct drop in the standard of service in many of the more popular chains over the last few years (Golden Corral, IHop, Ponderosa etc). So I'm not happy at being expected to tip for mediocre service. I can't understand the logic of charging a percentage of the bill either. If one couple have a cheap meal and another an expensive one, then the one that has the dearer meal has to tip a lot more for the same service. Why don't they either have a fixed tip or just increase the price and pay the waiters more.

[Villainlover]

I've noticed a distinct drop in the standard of service in many of the more popular chains over the last few years (Golden Corral, IHop, Ponderosa etc). So I'm not happy at being expected to tip for mediocre service. I can't understand the logic of charging a percentage of the bill either. If one couple have a cheap meal and another an expensive one, then the one that has the dearer meal has to tip a lot more for the same service. Why don't they either have a fixed tip or just increase the price and pay the waiters more.


that is what you would call a vicious circle ...

we get the reputation and we suffer because of it...

It has worked very well for them for years and years and years ... until package brits started coming to Florida en mass

[dcmax]

if you want to understand how the waitress in the US pays tax on his/her tips simply watch Quentin Tarantinos "Reservoir Dogs".. Theres a whole scene hilarious scene devoted to it.. Basically though the server is taxed on projected tips.. If he/she doesnt earn/make the tips he/she will start to go out of pocket..

My little grey cells though must have been deserting me for a few trips though . I have just realised I have been tipping 15 - 20% on the full amount including tax rather thean the actual bill ...DOH!!!!

[highlander447]

if you want to understand how the waitress in the US pays tax on his/her tips simply watch Quentin Tarantinos "Reservoir Dogs".. Theres a whole scene hilarious scene devoted to it.. Basically though the server is taxed on projected tips.. If he/she doesnt earn/make the tips he/she will start to go out of pocket..

My little grey cells though must have been deserting me for a few trips though . I have just realised I have been tipping 15 - 20% on the full amount including tax rather thean the actual bill ...DOH!!!!
And I bet u aint alone, we too tipped on tax which means server is lapping it up, sorry but I think we are being taken advantage off as for tax the yanks do there own tax minus deductions etc, I think we really shoould stand up and be counted lets tip for good service not for service as they are paid for basic service

[clairelouise]

Well im still confused so i think i am just going to leave $5 like it or lump it its my money and i will give it to who i choose, and if there not happy with the tip and want to say something then i will just tell them to give me it back.

IMHO we have never eaten anywhere and its cost more than about $35 so thats not a bad tip for someone to take my order carry the order to the kitchen and then carry my plate to the table.

Claire :smile:

[icatqman]

that is what you would call a vicious circle ...

we get the reputation and we suffer because of it...

It has worked very well for them for years and years and years ... until package brits started coming to Florida en mass

So you blame the masses and those who made Florida more accessible to those same people?

I still see it as a problem at source, the employers should sort it out in the first instance.

[carys]

So you blame the masses and those who made Florida more accessible to those same people?

I still see it as a problem at source, the employers should sort it out in the first instance.
I agree . If the employers paid a better basic wage and gratuities were added as discretion and then shared with the owners everyone would be better off. The service staff would have better salaries , more motivation to do a good job , Owners would get gratuity benefits and the system clearer for all. If it were not for the "en mass brits " i think the employment situation in Florida would be quite a different story. I will tip 20 % when in Rome etc but in principle i still firmly believe it should be discretionary.