Moral Torpitude
 

Afternoon all

We have a trip booked for March next year and I was due to apply for ESTAs this week.

Unfortunately my 17 year old son got arrested yesterday for assault. He has not been charged yet as police are still investigating and collecting evidence.

Any advice would be most appreciated. For the record, I do not condone what he has done and am not totally aware of all the circumstances. Please can we not make this about his behaviour but about the practical steps I may need to take.

Thanks all

Hi the moral turpitude question is no longer asked but Q2 reads:

Have you ever been arrested or convicted for a crime that resulted in serious damage to property, or serious harm to another person or government authority?

This question exists to prevent people from entering the country who are likely to commit a crime during their visit.

However, the question leaves some room for interpretation due to its use of the word ‘serious’. Consequently, if you’ve been convicted of a misdemeanour that didn’t result in serious damage or harm, you could answer ‘no’ to this question so it depends on the circumstances of your sons arrest.

However, ESTA officials can check police records from European countries and if they consider your crime to be serious enough, and for you to have lied in your application, you will be denied entry and likely denied in the future as well.*

*as per the esta site but not sure if this is true.

Every court case in this country is a matter of public record but I very much doubt that the USA has got any legal access to the PNC.

UK immigration officials do have access to overseas criminal conviction records but we do need a valid reason to request them, if a conviction is not declared there are certain indictators that would cause applications to require further enrichment prior to being passed. I have no idea what the process is for USA Immigration officials but would assume as we have a process to request criminal conviction data from our USA counterparts for their citizens applying for UK visas, one would assume we would reciprocate but I honestly don't know for sure.

As it stands he hasn't been charged, therefore apply for the ESTA. After all you will be answering honestly.

Serious assault in my interpretation is hospitalised etc. My opinion doesn't matter of course.

I have only ever heard.of ESTA and CBP checking police national computer for crimes of a particular category, certainly not what your son has alledgedly committed.

Try relax a little, there's a reason they used the word serious. Answer the question in its current form, and you can't be penalised. If convicted then cross that bridge when it's officially on paper. Of course I hope that doesn't happen.

Best of luck.

Your son got arrested for assault, not abh or gbh. I would go with the esta.

I have found this source which looks useful. It indicates if this was a common assault, with no weapon used nor “evil intent” then it is not a crime involving moral turpitude. No definition for evil intent, but I would take a guess that say an outburst of anger would not be considered evil intent.

https://hub.unlock.org.uk/knowledgeb...more%20rows%20

Not the PNC but they have access to records. So as my lawyer say answer the question that has been asked.

The relevant question has been quoted, yes he has been arrested, and the way the question is asked it seems irrelevant whether or not he has been charged.

Whether you think it is for something serious within the meaning of the question is I think something for you and your son to figure out. I can’t see that there is any guidance so there may be a grey area.

I would go for it aswell and just answer no …

This is verbatim from the official ESTA site as to what information is shared with other nations - presumably reciprocated between each and every VWP participating nation.

Is my information shared with anyone?
The information collected by and maintained in ESTA may be used by other components of DHS on a need-to-know basis consistent with the component's mission.

Under current agreements between DHS and the Department of State (DOS), information submitted during an ESTA application may be shared with consular officers of DOS to assist them in determining whether a visa should be issued to an applicant after a travel authorization application has been denied.

Information may be shared with appropriate federal, state, local, tribal, and foreign governmental agencies or multilateral governmental organizations responsible for investigating or prosecuting the violations of, or for enforcing or implementing, a statute, rule, regulation, order or license, or where DHS believes information would assist enforcement of civil or criminal laws. Additionally, information may be shared when DHS reasonably believes such use is to assist in anti-terrorism efforts or intelligence gathering related to national or international security or transnational crime. All sharing will remain consistent with the Privacy Act System of Records Notice, which was published in the Federal Register on June 10, 2008 and is available on the DHS Web site.

While carriers will not receive the ESTA application information that travelers provide to DHS, they will receive confirmation of a passenger's ESTA status via the Advance Passenger Information System (APIS) indicating whether an ESTA is required and whether authorization has been granted.

I interpret this as them being far more interested in sharing records of serious international crime and terrorism rather than, if you'll excuse my choice of words, a punch up in a pub.

There are currently around 40 worldwide nations in the VWP not just Europe.

Whatever this quote intends though he should be absolutely truthful in the ESTA application.

Mick