Out of term

[MillyMoo]

Originally Posted by OrlandoNick

I have taken my children out of school to tag on a week to the October half term when they were in enfant school but I wouldn’t do it now they are at secondary. I appreciate that the cost comes down in October which is a big factor but have you thought of visiting Orlando for the very last weeks of August? Some secondary schools go back a bit later in September (sometimes the older pupils go back a day or two later than the year 7 pupils) so perhaps look at these costs. Flying back the day before school starts should bring the cost down significantly. One year my children’s school didn’t go back until the Thursday at the beginning of September and my trip was reduced by 1500GBP by not flying back at the weekend. They didn’t miss any school days either.

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I dont think my children (or us!) would have been able to manage this, it took us a few days to get over the exhaustion from the "holiday" and the jet lag!

[Tinkjon]

Originally Posted by legallyblonde

I really think this has been blown out of all proportion and completely off topic. I’ve told you it was a 5 minute chat about a weeks worth of work (a week before a half term when teaching seems to slow down anyway). You’ve made your point, but I will respond to your comments:

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You have spectacularly missed my point, I'm afraid. I said that what you did is fine!

But much (most) work is not simply presented as a handout to children - if it were simply a case of photocopying some sheets then I'm sure no teacher would mind doing that. Sadly, it's nowhere near as easy as that. But Hey ho - we all have different opinions

[legallyblonde]

Originally Posted by Tinkjon

You have spectacularly missed my point, I'm afraid. I said that what you did is fine.

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Yes you did but then went on to labour your point even more which I was merely responding to.

[Sew109]

Originally Posted by Tinkjon

You have spectacularly missed my point, I'm afraid. I said that what you did is fine!

But much (most) work is not simply presented as a handout to children - if it were simply a case of photocopying some sheets then I'm sure no teacher would mind doing that. Sadly, it's nowhere near as easy as that. But Hey ho - we all have different opinions

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In think that this sadly demonstrates the ignorant view of teachers and educators that many parents have. Which is rather sad as they are doing a job that most would not have a hope of being able to do.

Teaching is a massive skill and incredibly hard and challenging the work load is immense the prep, the marking the form filling and being judged by OFSTED and parents who would want it ?

Without doubt it is the most under respected job in the country

[Sew109]

Originally Posted by MillyMoo

I dont think my children (or us!) would have been able to manage this, it took us a few days to get over the exhaustion from the "holiday" and the jet lag!

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Mine can do and adapts better than we do but I guess it’s different children ours is like a Duracell never tires !

[legallyblonde]

Originally Posted by Sew109

In think that this sadly demonstrates the ignorant view of teachers and educators that many parents have. Which is rather sad as they are doing a job that most would not have a hope of being able to do.

Teaching is a massive skill and incredibly hard and challenging the work load is immense the prep, the marking the form filling and being judged by OFSTED and parents who would want it ?

Without doubt it is the most under respected job in the country

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Look, I don’t mean to offend and apologies if I have. I completely respect the profession. I’ve no doubt in my mind that it’s a stressful job, but at the same token it is surely a worthwhile job that must be rewarding? It also has tremendous perks in comparison to other equally (or more) stressful jobs and it’s for this reason that perhaps it’s always a sore subject and frustrating for people in the private sector when teachers always seem so unhappy and hard done by? I’m genuinely interested to understand why this is the case and if you would prefer to be in private sector, why you think it is any better? Honestly not looking to frustrate anyone, just want to understand your viewpoint on that and understand why the profession just seems miserable and why they think the grass is any greener elsewhere. Is it just that we hear more about/from the profession because it affects so many of us? I don’t know. 🤔 Let’s face it, none of us really want to work and would rather be in Florida 6 months of the year but that’s life hey!? 🤦🏻😬

[Tretinker]

Originally Posted by legallyblonde

Look, I don’t mean to offend and apologies if I have. I completely respect the profession. I’ve no doubt in my mind that it’s a stressful job, but at the same token it is surely a worthwhile job that must be rewarding? It also has tremendous perks in comparison to other equally (or more) stressful jobs and it’s for this reason that perhaps it’s always a sore subject and frustrating for people in the private sector when teachers always seem so unhappy and hard done by? I’m genuinely interested to understand why this is the case and if you would prefer to be in private sector, why you think it is any better? Honestly not looking to frustrate anyone, just want to understand your viewpoint on that and understand why the profession just seems miserable and why they think the grass is any greener elsewhere. Is it just that we hear more about/from the profession because it affects so many of us? I don’t know. 🤔 Let’s face it, none of us really want to work and would rather be in Florida 6 months of the year but that’s life hey!? 🤦🏻😬

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I work in a school but thankfully not a teacher , I couldn't do it.

I think you have to work in a school to understand the massively intense pressure that is term time. It's so hard to explain but you have different expectations for all the people you are serving. From the children, to their parents, to you colleagues, to your head of year, your head teacher, your executive head, your governors and then Ofsted. All but ofsted have to be satisfied in very very different ways all day every day. These are not normal expectations but actions that can have a massive effect on these children's whole lives.
Most schools have a very high number of special needs children now, I work in an affluent area but we are looking at a third of the class if not more (in every class)with a range of medical, emotional or academic needs that constantly have to be catered for. For example in one class a deleted chromosome disorder, a bowel disorder, a severe hearing impairment, an epileptic, an uncontrolled type 1 diabetic, 2 with adhd one medicated one not, 5 autism across the scale, 2 dyslexic and 3 irlens. These all require very different care and approaches to teaching alongside the 'normal' children. The children with medical needs require a great deal of attention along with their parents who have very different needs to the children who are dyslexic or irlens but these parents and children have not only different needs to each other but also the 'normal' children. You then have to show constant progress to the heads but in different ways, you prepare different activities for the year group who are relying on you.
I worked in a hospital before this and while it was hard work, intense and a great deal of pressure the school environment is a very different ballgame and unless you've done it it's very hard to explain. But I love my job, the children for the most part are amazing and it is very rewarding but I have never known exhaustion like it. And parents are crazy
Oh and while we don't official work in the holidays everyone does (except TAs) I have never been in school during the holidays and not seen a half full car park or had constant emails. Never do the teachers stop, one emailed me on Christmas day, and I know 3 members of staff were in school.
Perhaps other school are different, we are outstanding and there is a reason for that no one ever stops striving for the best education for these children. I honestly thought with the school holidays it would be a breeze no they are a few days in which to recover ready for the next onslaught

[birdiesX4]

We took our children out twice at Easter for a week when they were in primary to make a 3 week holiday. In high school they came out for a week once at Easter and then at the end of years 9, 11 and 13 when their exams had finished, somat the end of June. It was before fines and they had to have a minimum attendance for it to be authorised.
DS is now a chemistry teacher at his old high school and he isn't particularly fussed if one of his kids came out of school. He gets that it could be a leave issue or just a funds reason. He would supply work if requested but wouldn't offer it without being asked as he says a lot of parents are not that bothered.
In relation to the workload of teachers and speaking just of DS...
DS works very hard for his kids and is regularly not home before 5.30 and is in school before 8 everyday. He has had a parents every week since returning from Christmas break where he is working until 9 and had three before Xmas. So he works damned hard and this doesn't include the Saturdays he pops in, the prep and marking time at home and the days during holidays.

He doesn't think saying you are seeing culture or different ways of life is any more of a reason to take time off school. He reckons if you want to take your kids out just do it but don't dress it up as it's an educational reason...it's a holiday so just 'fess up and do it!

[Sew109]

Originally Posted by legallyblonde

Look, I don’t mean to offend and apologies if I have. I completely respect the profession. I’ve no doubt in my mind that it’s a stressful job, but at the same token it is surely a worthwhile job that must be rewarding? It also has tremendous perks in comparison to other equally (or more) stressful jobs and it’s for this reason that perhaps it’s always a sore subject and frustrating for people in the private sector when teachers always seem so unhappy and hard done by? I’m genuinely interested to understand why this is the case and if you would prefer to be in private sector, why you think it is any better? Honestly not looking to frustrate anyone, just want to understand your viewpoint on that and understand why the profession just seems miserable and why they think the grass is any greener elsewhere. Is it just that we hear more about/from the profession because it affects so many of us? I don’t know. 🤔 Let’s face it, none of us really want to work and would rather be in Florida 6 months of the year but that’s life hey!? 🤦🏻😬

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I have always worked in the private sector I have never worked for any government or state entity, for the last 15 years I have worked at very senior level for global plc’s whilst running my own business which I now do full time. I work 60 hours plus every week and never shut down even when on holiday, I have to make sure I have enough money and work coming in to pay my 24 staff every week.

All of this is a stroll in the park compared to being a teacher how do I know ? I have a wife who is a qualified teacher a sister who is a deputy head, an aunt and 2 cousins who are or were teachers and I am a school governor.

Many parents have the attitude that despite what they may say that privately it’s easier than working for a bank or estate agent and easier than most other jobs finishing at 3pm having 12 weeks holidays and then complain like mad when the school is shut.

As a parent it can be tough with say a 5 year old and the amount of times I have heard “she had 3 children under 6” or “it’s so tough with twins” well imagine what it is like when you have 30 of them to look after and teach and be judged on how well you do. You are looking after and responsible for what people care the most about again this adds to the pressure.

As Tretinker has says even in affluent areas you can have a third of the class who are pupil premium this can much higher less well off areas and this can make things far harder. We have a friend who teaches in a less affluent area who had 12 children in her year R class related more problems. My sister had children coming into her year R class in dirty nappy’s as they knew the teachers would change them and save the expense of nappy’s and expect them to toilet train them at 4! I hasten to add my sister used to be a sales manager with 50 salesman reporting to her and tough targets to meet she has said teaching is far harder but also far more rewarding.

Then you get a parent come in and tell you that you think going to Florida for a week is more important than what you have studied and planned to teach them for a week and have to smile sweetly and make out it’s fine whilst you want to know what the child will be missing so you get the best of both worlds. Added to this you think they have an easy job and less stressful than working in a call centre.

[legallyblonde]

Originally Posted by Sew109

I have always worked in the private sector I have never worked for any government or state entity, for the last 15 years I have worked at very senior level for global plc’s whilst running my own business which I now do full time. I work 60 hours plus every week and never shut down even when on holiday, I have to make sure I have enough money and work coming in to pay my 24 staff every week.

All of this is a stroll in the park compared to being a teacher how do I know ? I have a wife who is a qualified teacher a sister who is a deputy head, an aunt and 2 cousins who are or were teachers and I am a school governor.

Many parents have the attitude that despite what they may say that privately it’s easier than working for a bank or estate agent and easier than most other jobs finishing at 3pm having 12 weeks holidays and then complain like mad when the school is shut.

As a parent it can be tough with say a 5 year old and the amount of times I have heard “she had 3 children under 6” or “it’s so tough with twins” well imagine what it is like when you have 30 of them to look after and teach and be judged on how well you do. You are looking after and responsible for what people care the most about again this adds to the pressure.

As Tretinker has says even in affluent areas you can have a third of the class who are pupil premium this can much higher less well off areas and this can make things far harder. We have a friend who teaches in a less affluent area who had 12 children in her year R class related more problems. My sister had children coming into her year R class in dirty nappy’s as they knew the teachers would change them and save the expense of nappy’s and expect them to toilet train them at 4! I hasten to add my sister used to be a sales manager with 50 salesman reporting to her and tough targets to meet she has said teaching is far harder but also far more rewarding.

Then you get a parent come in and tell you that you think going to Florida for a week is more important than what you have studied and planned to teach them for a week and have to smile sweetly and make out it’s fine whilst you want to know what the child will be missing so you get the best of both worlds. Added to this you think they have an easy job and less stressful than working in a call centre.

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1. I never said it was an easy job;
2. Who mentioned a call centre?
3. I was simply saying that many other jobs have similar pressures without so many perks and therefore on balance, from the outside looking in, it seems like overall a good career. I was asking why therefore, teachers seem so very unhappy. Yes, it is stressful, but they have good pensions, good holiday, no childcare issues, and it is rewarding. Exactly what most would want out of a career so I was genuinely wondering why the unhappiness.

I am not so naive to think that teachers don’t have planning, marking etc and that this is done outside usual hours and in the holidays, but these are hours people in the private sector work anyway so how is that any different? I have many teacher friends. I have asked them genuinely how much time of the 13 weeks holiday over the year they spend working and they said about 4 weeks planning, marking etc - that still equates to 9 weeks holiday a year. So the stress in my view would be worth it, on balance and you all continue to do it, so I presume you agree?