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Old 24 Nov 20, 08:46 AM  
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#41
munmun
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Originally Posted by 123 View Post
That is what it means.

When you consider about 40% of 18-21 year olds don't earn enough as students.

The vast majority of OAP don't earn enough

Many two income families have one person earning and the other in part time work that doesn't quite reach the personal allowance

When you look at it, it becomes surprising that 58% do pay income tax
Where do you get your stats from?

I find that pensioners pay 11% of all income tax and those over 65 make up about 20% of the adult population (52 M adults, 12M over 65s)

Half a million pensioners are higher rate tax payers.
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Old 24 Nov 20, 10:35 AM  
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#42
Perthite
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Originally Posted by FamilyGWales View Post
Free personal care for adults needing care and support? That's quite a draw for me. It's not cheap sadly.
It’s a good thing to have but, again, we already had that long before the additional Scottish tax was imposed.

The only form of new public expenditure since the Scottish rate came in seems to be on legal fees, but that’s a whole other topic!
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Old 24 Nov 20, 11:03 AM  
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#43
Pumpkin Pie
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Originally Posted by Perthite View Post
It’s a good thing to have but, again, we already had that long before the additional Scottish tax was imposed.

The only form of new public expenditure since the Scottish rate came in seems to be on legal fees, but that’s a whole other topic!
Maybe the cost of providing all this has increased over the years? I suppose a lot of people want public services etc. but want to pay little or no tax but as you say that’s another topic.

Edited at 11:45 AM.
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Old 24 Nov 20, 11:26 AM  
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#44
123
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Originally Posted by munmun View Post
Where do you get your stats from?

I find that pensioners pay 11% of all income tax and those over 65 make up about 20% of the adult population (52 M adults, 12M over 65s)

Half a million pensioners are higher rate tax payers.
You are confusing two similar statistics

Whilst pensioners may pay 11% of all income tax, that doesn't mean lots of pensioners pay tax. It may in fact mean only 1 pensioner pays tax, it just that they have a Zuckerberg sized income.

If half a million pensioners are high rate tax payers, that is only 4% of the pensioner population, whereas (according to the BBC 13.7% of the UK population pays in the 40% tax rate)
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Old 24 Nov 20, 11:50 AM  
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#45
munmun
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Originally Posted by 123 View Post
You are confusing two similar statistics

Whilst pensioners may pay 11% of all income tax, that doesn't mean lots of pensioners pay tax. It may in fact mean only 1 pensioner pays tax, it just that they have a Zuckerberg sized income.

If half a million pensioners are high rate tax payers, that is only 4% of the pensioner population, whereas (according to the BBC 13.7% of the UK population pays in the 40% tax rate)
I believe it's closer to 4.5% of the over 65 population are higher rate tax payers and agree the of the under 65 population there are approx 13.7% higher rate payers.

The tax is not just paid by multimillionaire in fact they are pretty good at not paying it is also paid by the likes of myself and many people I know.
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Old 24 Nov 20, 12:04 PM  
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#46
megaflyer
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Originally Posted by munmun View Post
I believe it's closer to 4.5% of the over 65 population are higher rate tax payers and agree the of the under 65 population there are approx 13.7% higher rate payers.

The tax is not just paid by multimillionaire in fact they are pretty good at not paying it is also paid by the likes of myself and many people I know.
Tell me about it - many “pensioners” (or those old enough to draw a pension rather than be a OAP) I know are not overly wealthy but pay HRT on their pension as their investment income takes them over the threshold even if their occupation pension doesnt. Like you say it is becoming more normal and far from just multimillionaires ... its happening in the real world - I know from personal experience !
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Old 24 Nov 20, 12:09 PM  
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We have just been through all of this when DH had (and has now taken)a new job offer.
He falls in the 40% bracket but had a car and company benefits which used up his free allowance and he was heavily taxed on. He took a 30k rise, but as it's a US based HR he has to provide everything like a phone and a car himself. It was so confusing with tax codes and no benefit in kind to see if it was worth it, as it involves a lot of train travel to London which is pricey. We still won't even know until he is paid! It is a lot better place to work at, it's just so confusing to work it all out as we have no idea how much the car etc took up of his allowance.
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Old 24 Nov 20, 04:55 PM  
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Originally Posted by limmy View Post
We have just been through all of this when DH had (and has now taken)a new job offer.
He falls in the 40% bracket but had a car and company benefits which used up his free allowance and he was heavily taxed on. He took a 30k rise, but as it's a US based HR he has to provide everything like a phone and a car himself. It was so confusing with tax codes and no benefit in kind to see if it was worth it, as it involves a lot of train travel to London which is pricey. We still won't even know until he is paid! It is a lot better place to work at, it's just so confusing to work it all out as we have no idea how much the car etc took up of his allowance.
It's not exact but the benefit in kind of a company car is about 30% of it's list price. So a £30k car is £9000 and tax at 40% is therefore £3600. However the private cost of a £30k car could be as much as £5600 p.a. so he might be £2k p.a. worse off. The biggest horror story is the rail fare with many commuters now paying over £10k p.a. An £18k pay rise suddenly is now worth only £6k.
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Old 24 Nov 20, 06:42 PM  
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Originally Posted by megaflyer View Post
Like you say it is becoming more normal and far from just multimillionaires ... its happening in the real world - I know from personal experience !
It really isn’t normal- certainly outside of the Dibb bubble. Very few pensioners (<5%) receive an annual income over £50,000.

Going forward, these high pensions will be limited to public sector workers. Those in the private sector would need a pension pot over £2m to get a £50k annual pension
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Old 24 Nov 20, 06:51 PM  
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munmun
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Originally Posted by Moorlandman View Post
It really isn’t normal- certainly outside of the Dibb bubble. Very few pensioners (<5%) receive an annual income over £50,000.

Going forward, these high pensions will be limited to public sector workers. Those in the private sector would need a pension pot over £2m to get a £50k annual pension
Well that's not entirely true because for those who put their pension into a SIPP they can actually take the pension they want!

Some pensioners have property investments that pay them a good income even after all the expenses involved, some are still working as well as taking pension. Outside the Dibb bubble I know many pensioners who have double (both partners) with income over £50K
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