Any University lecturers out there?...Some advice please.

[DisneyYoda]

My son is just about to finish his first year studying engineering. One of his modules was very poorly taught during lockdown. I won't go into detail but it does sound pretty awful and a majority of the year have failed the module... including my son.

So, the University are saying that these students will have to retake in August. Have a look at my countdown... not great timing.

My question is. What comeback have the students got if they weren't taught the material required to pass the test? Shouldn't it be the University who makes amends for shoddy teaching? Perhaps let them through to year 2 and reteach them the material?

This has been an awful year all round for students and August break might just have been deserved...no?

Trouble is, these are all young adults and not great at influencing the outcome when they are being turned over. It's awful to see it and not be able to get in there myself.

[Disney Bear]

Not sure on come back but can he ask if he can retake remotely? So he could technically do it from anywhere in the world. Afraid I had a similar experience - although a few years ago now so nothing related to COVID - lecturer was terrible and most of the class retook over summer before being allowed to join the second year.

Afraid the time to complain and get a change would probably have been earlier in the year - not after failing the course - just my opinion.

[DisneyYoda]

Originally Posted by Disney Bear

Not sure on come back but can he ask if he can retake remotely? So he could technically do it from anywhere in the world. Afraid I had a similar experience - although a few years ago now so nothing related to COVID - lecturer was terrible and most of the class retook over summer before being allowed to join the second year.

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I suspect it will be remote as nothing has been delivered face to face this year. But I really can't imagine going to Orlando with all the associated hassle this year just to watch him revise and take an exam.

What worries me is, will the outcome change? If they don't get taught the material again properly they are probably being set up to fail again. Unless, the University set the bar pretty low not wanting to lose half their students...which would be a joke really.

Agreed that it would have been much better to have sorted this earlier. Trouble is you have a bunch of young adults in their first year of college who don't know how the world works and only realise that they've been given a duff deal late in the day. I think it would have been very different if it had been ye and me on the course!

[mickey house]

You have to pass the current year to go through to the next year so they wouldn't usually just let students learn it in the next year.

If lots of students have failed in the same area(s) then that would highlight to the uni that there is a problem, but the more students that complain the better.

My son is just finishing his 4th year in engineering at uni and has said that they don't cover everything in lectures that's in the exams as that's down to students to learn it. I have briefly seen some of my son's online lectures and some of the lecturers are difficult to understand as English isn't their first language so that can be a challenge understanding a complex subject.

I think your son has been unlucky because it appears most unis with online lectures during covid have been more easy going with students.

[DisneyYoda]

Originally Posted by mickey house

You have to pass the current year to go through to the next year so they wouldn't usually just let students learn it in the next year.

If lots of students have failed in the same area(s) then that would highlight to the uni that there is a problem, but the more students that complain the better.

My son is just finishing his 4th year in engineering at uni and has said that they don't cover everything in lectures that's in the exams as that's down to students to learn it. I have briefly seen some of my son's online lectures and some of the lecturers are difficult to understand as English isn't their first language so that can be a challenge understanding a complex subject.

I think your son has been unlucky because it appears most unis with online lectures during covid have been more easy going with students.

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In normal times leaving it to students to fill in the gaps might have worked. I think they've just been so detached from everything that they just haven't got into the independent learning groove. A lot of that happens when you meet other students..share experiences...meet lecturers face to face...get a feel for the expectations. All of that just didn't happen.

But the fact that he's stormed the rest of the course must show the University that they're screwed up on this module. I just don't think it should be the students who should carry the can for their incompetence.

It's all a bit rubbish.

[sophiepop]

Originally Posted by DisneyYoda

Trouble is, these are all young adults and not great at influencing the outcome when they are being turned over. It's awful to see it and not be able to get in there myself.

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This bit alone says everything I feel about my Daughters University. Soph has actually dropped out of a bit of her course that gains her the qualification she needs! It has been that bad that she has chosen to take an extra year with a different provider to ensure that she can do her chosen profession confidently!..

The university have got it sorted though as they won't speak to the parents as their students are adults (I understand this totally), but I feel they are being ripped off and whereas I would stand and fight my corner, Soph is not happy to do that

I hope you get it sorted for your Son x

[Disney Bear]

So can your son talk to his year head or equivalent. I know it is difficult but has there been any group sessions so he knows any others that feel the same. Instead of complaining they could always make it a bit more positive on asking for help (as a group they may feel more comfortable doing this). I do understand this has been a very difficult time but they are adults and do need to learn independently - I best this will not be the last poorly taught course.

[Nimbus]

I'm just going to split this into two "issues" (as it were):

1. One of the modules was badly taught.
2. You've booked a holiday when the exam resits will happen.

Regarding #1: If signficant numbers of students failed that module then, yes, it indicates that the module was badly taught. Hopefully, those poor results - plus complaints by the students - should make the University realise that they need to address that problem in the near future. Perhaps the University can put on additional lectures or workshops to resolve the problem? It certainly sounds like they need to do something.

Regarding #2: Whatever the outcome of the above, the students will need to resit the exam (hopefully after receiving some additional help to bridge the gap in their knowledge, as per #1). That exam will be during the period previously indicated by the University. The University will usually set a period when resits will happen and they usually recommend that students are available during this time. That is to say, they should not book holidays during that time.

So the badly-taught module (#1) is very much the fault of the University and needs addressing. Whereas booking a holiday at the time of the resits (#2) is the risk you took and the University cannot be hold responsible for that part.

Originally Posted by DisneyYoda

What worries me is, will the outcome change? If they don't get taught the material again properly they are probably being set up to fail again.

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I agree with you. If this is not just an issue isolated to a few students then expecting them all to do significantly better without any additional assistance is very short-sighted. They should be offering catch-up lectures to go through the material again, allow students to ask questions, advise them on where they went wrong with their previous answers to the exam, etc.

[DisneyYoda]

Originally Posted by Nimbus

I'm just going to split this into two "issues" (as it were):

1. One of the modules was badly taught.
2. You've booked a holiday when the exam resits will happen.

Regarding #1: If signficant numbers of students failed that module then, yes, it indicates that the module was badly taught. Hopefully, those poor results - plus complaints by the students - should make the University realise that they need to address that problem in the near future. Perhaps the University can put on additional lectures or workshops to resolve the problem? It certainly sounds like they need to do something.

Regarding #2: Whatever the outcome of the above, the students will need to resit the exam (hopefully after receiving some additional help to bridge the gap in their knowledge, as per #1). That exam will be during the period previously indicated by the University. The University will usually set a period when resits will happen and they usually recommend that students are available during this time. That is to say, they should not book holidays during that time.

So the badly-taught module (#1) is very much the fault of the University and needs addressing. Whereas booking a holiday at the time of the resits (#2) is the risk you took and the University cannot be hold responsible for that part.



I agree with you. If this is not just an issue isolated to a few students then expecting them all to do significantly better without any additional assistance is very short-sighted. They should be offering catch-up lectures to go through the material again, allow students to ask questions, advise them on where they went wrong with their previous answers to the exam, etc.

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From what I have been told, it does look like the University is very much to blame here. Worryingly they don't seem to be in a rush to do the things you suggest but that's something I'll be urging my son to press them on.

I agree that we booked the holiday at risk but we should not really be where we are and as far as I can see, that's on the University. There might not be a lot I can do about it but it doesn't stop me from being angry that they have fouled up.

And I do think the solution should be at their inconvenience not the customer's inconvenience. I expect a lot of those students had plans for the summer which through no fault of their own they are going to have to dump.

What I think doesn't really matter though...just need to suck it up...advise where I can and thank the lord that the holiday is fully refundable! And just maybe they will come to a different solution and we can have the family holiday we all deserve.

[Nimbus]

Originally Posted by DisneyYoda

From what I have been told, it does look like the University is very much to blame here. Worryingly they don't seem to be in a rush to do the things you suggest but that's something I'll be urging my son to press them on.

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Yes, it's up to the students to ask the university (in the first instance, their course tutor) for assistance saying that they felt the course was poorly taught. Part of the point of universities is to get these young adults to start doing things on their own and take responsibility for their education. If they feel they weren't taught properly then they need to ask for assistance. (And, yes, I realise that sounds a bit harsh but - on the other hand - the University isn't going to help them further unless they ask).

My daughter has often asked for assistance from her lecturers, course tutor and student support with regards to some of her first year work. They will provide feedback of her answers and go through where she went wrong. Admittedly, some of her lecturers are better at this than others.

I'd hope your son'e university would do the same. It's no different to what I'd expect them to do in normal years, albeit over a video call nowadays rather than face-to-face in the old days. If a student fails a module, I'd hope the lecturers or course tutor would be happy to help where they can when asked.

Originally Posted by DisneyYoda

I agree that we booked the holiday at risk but we should not really be where we are and as far as I can see, that's on the University. There might not be a lot I can do about it but it doesn't stop me from being angry that they have fouled up.

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The thing is, the University states not to book a holiday during the dates when resits happen - just in case. That "just in case" applies as much to the University's "foul up" and it does to the student's "foul up" (and students can, and do, fail modules for a variety of reasons even when the module is taught as well as can be expected).

Therefore it doesn't matter if the University fouled up on this module or not; students shouldn't have booked a holiday at this time. Or, if they do, they take the risk that their holiday may have to change or be cancelled if it is required to do so for *any* reason (including the University's foul up). That's the agreement you and the University make when the Univeristy advises you of these resit dates.

Now, if the University had not made it clear when the dates of the resits could happen until recently - or if they've changed the dates - then you would have a case to make. But I assume that isn't the case?