Any HR experts?

[lizzie145]

Originally Posted by Procrastinator

My guess is the contract states they can do this.

But should they? Well if she is a regular full time and her contract stated 25 days plus bank hol and every year she had 33 plus bank hol then come on, she knew, but just took it and kept quiet. That is wrong and not a lot of sympathy.

But if she is a part time, the holiday calcs for pro rata of bank hols are not simple and then i think it is unreasonable for them to expect her to have known. They should just take the hit.

But the above probably doesn't matter as there is almost certainly a clause in her contract that says she agrees any money wrongly paid can be recovered.

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It's easy to calculate pro rata leave. The onus is on both the employee and employer to check it is correct, same as wages.

[Loulou127]

Originally Posted by lizzie145

It's easy to calculate pro rata leave. The onus is on both the employee and employer to check it is correct, same as wages.

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It’s easy to calculate pro rata leave, it’s not easy to calculate bank holiday entitlement if you work part time, I worked in HR, there were lots of issues with it not least that it changes each year potentially because of bank holidays being on different days (Xmas/boxing day/New Years day)

[lizzie145]

Originally Posted by Loulou127

It’s easy to calculate pro rata leave, it’s not easy to calculate bank holiday entitlement if you work part time, I worked in HR, there were lots of issues with it not least that it changes each year potentially because of bank holidays being on different days (Xmas/boxing day/New Years day)

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The amount that employees get doesn't change! However the amount taken could change depending on days worked

[Procrastinator]

Originally Posted by lizzie145

It's easy to calculate pro rata leave. The onus is on both the employee and employer to check it is correct, same as wages.

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It is easy if you understand the issue, the way your company deals with bank holidays for part timers and you are ok at basic maths.

That is not true for at least 50% of the population, if not more.

I do agree employees need to have responsibility too, hence the point on if it is blindingly obvious, but this is not the same. With pro rata leave involving bank hols do employers present the calculation to the employee for their review? No, it is just presented as a fact, you have X days holiday for the year. It is not reasonable to expect an employee to reverse calculate their holiday entitlement or have to request a copy of the calculation.

[lizzie145]

Our company has a spreadsheet which covers how many hours you work so it is there for all

[Guest]

I am a little incredulous about somebody not knowing that they have had double the amount of bank holiday leave, which is eight days, for numerous years.

So I tend to suspect your friend knew and purposely kept quiet and even if she didn't, yes, she needs to pay it back. This is effectively the same as a salary overpayment, which also involves an employers error, but it doesn't mean the employee can keep it.

[Universal VR]

Originally Posted by Claudette

I am a little incredulous about somebody not knowing that they have had double the amount of bank holiday leave, which is eight days, for numerous years.

So I tend to suspect your friend knew and purposely kept quiet and even if she didn't, yes, she needs to pay it back. This is effectively the same as a salary overpayment, which also involves an employers error, but it doesn't mean the employee can keep it.

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As this person only works 25 hours a week, that could be over less than 5 days so the additional wouldn’t be an extra 8 days as its pro rata. Apart from my precessional qualification (I’m a certified accountant), I have a degree in payroll management and I still find it messy calculating the part timers entitlement each year.

[Procrastinator]

Originally Posted by Universal VR

As this person only works 25 hours a week, that could be over less than 5 days so the additional wouldn’t be an extra 8 days as its pro rata. Apart from my precessional qualification (I’m a certified accountant), I have a degree in payroll management and I still find it messy calculating the part timers entitlement each year.

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Exactly. It is not easy. And it may well not even be the same number of hours every day, so then holiday is given as a number of hours. So someone working 25 hours a week might well be told... you have 165 hours per year. But if a bank holiday lands on your work day you have to take it as hol. Or if the bank hols have been doubled 205 hours per year but take any bank hols that land on your work days. I doubt most would realise 165 is the right number and 205 is the wrong number.

Plus, any company that pays over 20+8 is paying more than the stat min so can in effect make its own rules up and might calculate it differently.

It is not simple and most, more than 50% will not have a clue how it is calculated.