Dawn Butler stopped

[vowels]

Originally Posted by tocpe321

Vowels from your last post,

"And for the record, I do not believe that all police officers are racists, homophobic, islamophobic or any other type of phobic."

I don't know what you do for a living, but let's say you are an accountant.

How does this sentence sound?

And for the record, I do not believe that all accountants are racists, homophobic, islamophobic or any other type of phobic.

At the very least it sounds like a large amount, if not the majority of accountants are racist etc. It's moving towards I met an accountant and they were actually alright.



I think the language and narrative around police is problematic.

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Actually, I used the word "all" rather than the majority as that is how you collectively referred to serving police officers and how you thought some people perceived them in your comments on Post 120.

But I am happy to clarify, I do not believe that the majority of serving police officers are racist, homophobic, islamophobic or any other type of phobic. There are, as in all areas of society, a few who do not share the values of equality of the majority. That, as I am sure you will agree, has caused the police forces problems in the past.

[marypoppins38]

Originally Posted by JohnD

The Metropolitan Police reviewed the camera footage and concluded there was no misconduct. They also invited the athletes to review the footage but I can't find out if they availed themselves of the offer.

In any case, I fail to see what being athletes, international or otherwise, has to do with anything.

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Indeed. Oscar Pistorius was also an athlete. It doesn't magically absolve them from wrongdoing.

[salmim]

Originally Posted by vowels

Actually, I used the word "all" rather than the majority as that is how you collectively referred to serving police officers and how you thought some people perceived them in your comments on Post 120.

But I am happy to clarify, I do not believe that the majority of serving police officers are racist, homophobic, islamophobic or any other type of phobic. There are, as in all areas of society, a few who do not share the values of equality of the majority. That, as I am sure you will agree, has caused the police forces problems in the past.

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I would have I dont think there are many...but pedantics I suppose.

[vowels]

Originally Posted by 2point

Did they disagree that they were driving on the wrong side of the road and sped off when asked to stop?

One officer is dead and another seriously injured after trying to stop vehicles. Taking their keys and handcuffing when suspicious behaviour is present sounds very much like they were protecting themselves.

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Yes they do.

If you are referring to PC Harper and PC Phillips, neither were attack by a young couple with a three month baby.

[JohnD]

Originally Posted by marypoppins38

Indeed. Oscar Pistorius was also an athlete. It doesn't magically absolve them from wrongdoing.

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I'd forgotten that. What I was thinking of is the amount of drug misuse/abuse in athletics (In one anonymous survey of several thousand world-class amateur athletes, up to 57 percent admitted to using performance-enhancing drugs in the past year, according to a study published in the journal Sports Medicine - livescience/61747-ho...ic-doping.html)

[vowels]

Originally Posted by JohnD

People are targeted for stop and search because of the descriptions of people committing the crimes. That was certainly the case for anyone from Northern Ireland traveling during the 1970s and 1980s.

Be that as it may, if 'The system and its execution are not fit for purpose', what would you have them put in their place that would lead to a decrease in crime and violence?

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That policy was a bit of a disaster in Northern Ireland.

Invest money in the young. Provide alternatives to gangs. It is a boring solution but it works.
Ensure the police have better training so that they know the law and the rights of the public.
Ask the rank and file, ask the social workers and teachers then act on their recommendations.
Increase police numbers, less workload for the existing police officers, less stress, better decision making.
Look at what actions are working in other police forces and adopt them.

[Hank]

Here follows the comments by the Deputy Assistant Commissioner who has reviewed the incident, I note that the vehicle had tinted windows so the officer would not known the ethnicity of the occupants ! which makes a mockery of her claims.

A senior police official has spoken out against officers facing “trial by social media” after a car carrying Labour MP Dawn Butler was stopped on Sunday.

Ms Butler, who is black, accused police of racial profiling after the BMW in which she was travelling was pulled over in Hackney, east London. The car was driven by a friend, who is also black.

However, Metropolitan Police deputy commissioner Sir Steve House has defended the officers’ conduct after reviewing the incident, footage of which – filmed by Ms Butler – has spread widely on social media.

Sir Steve said the officers had acted properly, and it was “unfair” that police should have their actions hastily posted and scrutinised on social media, rather than being reviewed through proper channels.

“The officers in this case came into work on Sunday to keep Londoners safe,” he said in a statement.

“Officers expect to be scrutinised and there are existing, appropriate and proportionate processes for making complaints and for facts to be established, and on the occasions where there is fault – unlike this case – for consequences to follow.

“The increasingly routine trial by social media is unfair and damaging to individual officers and has the potential to undermine the role our communities need us to do to protect them and keep them safe from violence.”

Sir Steve said he had discussed with Ms Butler her concerns over why the stop was made, adding she had no complaint about how it was conducted.

He said the officers were from the Violent Crime Task Force and were in the area “as part of our proactive work to protect communities from violence”.

a man wearing a suit and tie talking on a cell phone: Metropolitan Police deputy commissioner Sir Steve House (right) says his officers acted with the same ‘professional curiosity’ he would have shown (Jonathan Brady/PA)© Provided by PA Media Metropolitan Police deputy commissioner Sir Steve House (right) says his officers acted with the same ‘professional curiosity’ he would have shown (Jonathan Brady/PA)
“Criminals often use vehicles to travel in and to commit crime, therefore officers will often check cars to see if there is anything that requires them to stop it and do further checks,” Sir Steve said.

“The officers ran a number plate check on the vehicle. At this stage, the officers still didn’t know who the occupants of the car were, including their ethnicity because the car windows were tinted.”

A mistake was made, however, when an officer incorrectly entered the car’s registration into his computer, Sir Steve said, adding that was when the Police National Computer returned details of a car from another region of the UK.

As a result, he said, the officers had decided to conduct further checks by stopping the vehicle and engaging with its occupants.

I JUST GOT STOPPED BY THE POLICE DRIVING THROUGH HACKNEY… MORE DETAILS TO FOLLOW…@metpoliceuk

I recorded the whole incident.

— Dawn Butler MP✊🏾 (@DawnButlerBrent) August 9, 2020

“I expect officers to have professional curiosity and I would have done the same,” he said.

Having viewed video footage Sir Steve said the officers “acted professionally and politely, explaining why the stop was made and, when realising there was a mistake, explaining this and continuing to answer the occupants’ questions”.

Sir Steve also condemned the abuse some people had directed towards Ms Butler on social media since Sunday.

“It is unwarranted and unacceptable and we are working to support her,” he said.

Sir Steve’s comments echoed those of Metropolitan Police Federation chairman Ken Marsh, who urged force officials to release body-worn camera footage from the officers involved, saying: “We’ve got nothing to hide”.

Mr Marsh told the PA news agency: “We are fed up with individuals being allowed to film my colleagues with impunity and put it out on every social media strand within five seconds, wherever they want, but we’re not allowed under legal grounds… to do the same, to put my colleagues’ body-worn camera out immediately.

“Now, that sounds a bit perverse, don’t you think, because we’ve got nothing to hide.

“I’m talking about transparency here.

“I, as the chair of 30,000 officers, am saying: put it out there.”

The federation represents thousands of rank and file officers in the London area.

[JohnD]

Originally Posted by vowels

That policy was a bit of a disaster in Northern Ireland.

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What do you base that on? It led to a considerable number of arrests and convictions and inconvenienced the ill-intentioned.

[tocpe321]

Originally Posted by Hank

Here follows the comments by the Deputy Assistant Commissioner who has reviewed the incident, I note that the vehicle had tinted windows so the officer would not known the ethnicity of the occupants ! which makes a mockery of her claims.

A senior police official has spoken out against officers facing “trial by social media” after a car carrying Labour MP Dawn Butler was stopped on Sunday.

Ms Butler, who is black, accused police of racial profiling after the BMW in which she was travelling was pulled over in Hackney, east London. The car was driven by a friend, who is also black.

However, Metropolitan Police deputy commissioner Sir Steve House has defended the officers’ conduct after reviewing the incident, footage of which – filmed by Ms Butler – has spread widely on social media.

Sir Steve said the officers had acted properly, and it was “unfair” that police should have their actions hastily posted and scrutinised on social media, rather than being reviewed through proper channels.

“The officers in this case came into work on Sunday to keep Londoners safe,” he said in a statement.

“Officers expect to be scrutinised and there are existing, appropriate and proportionate processes for making complaints and for facts to be established, and on the occasions where there is fault – unlike this case – for consequences to follow.

“The increasingly routine trial by social media is unfair and damaging to individual officers and has the potential to undermine the role our communities need us to do to protect them and keep them safe from violence.”

Sir Steve said he had discussed with Ms Butler her concerns over why the stop was made, adding she had no complaint about how it was conducted.

He said the officers were from the Violent Crime Task Force and were in the area “as part of our proactive work to protect communities from violence”.

a man wearing a suit and tie talking on a cell phone: Metropolitan Police deputy commissioner Sir Steve House (right) says his officers acted with the same ‘professional curiosity’ he would have shown (Jonathan Brady/PA)© Provided by PA Media Metropolitan Police deputy commissioner Sir Steve House (right) says his officers acted with the same ‘professional curiosity’ he would have shown (Jonathan Brady/PA)
“Criminals often use vehicles to travel in and to commit crime, therefore officers will often check cars to see if there is anything that requires them to stop it and do further checks,” Sir Steve said.

“The officers ran a number plate check on the vehicle. At this stage, the officers still didn’t know who the occupants of the car were, including their ethnicity because the car windows were tinted.”

A mistake was made, however, when an officer incorrectly entered the car’s registration into his computer, Sir Steve said, adding that was when the Police National Computer returned details of a car from another region of the UK.

As a result, he said, the officers had decided to conduct further checks by stopping the vehicle and engaging with its occupants.

I JUST GOT STOPPED BY THE POLICE DRIVING THROUGH HACKNEY… MORE DETAILS TO FOLLOW…@metpoliceuk

I recorded the whole incident.

— Dawn Butler MP✊🏾 (@DawnButlerBrent) August 9, 2020

“I expect officers to have professional curiosity and I would have done the same,” he said.

Having viewed video footage Sir Steve said the officers “acted professionally and politely, explaining why the stop was made and, when realising there was a mistake, explaining this and continuing to answer the occupants’ questions”.

Sir Steve also condemned the abuse some people had directed towards Ms Butler on social media since Sunday.

“It is unwarranted and unacceptable and we are working to support her,” he said.

Sir Steve’s comments echoed those of Metropolitan Police Federation chairman Ken Marsh, who urged force officials to release body-worn camera footage from the officers involved, saying: “We’ve got nothing to hide”.

Mr Marsh told the PA news agency: “We are fed up with individuals being allowed to film my colleagues with impunity and put it out on every social media strand within five seconds, wherever they want, but we’re not allowed under legal grounds… to do the same, to put my colleagues’ body-worn camera out immediately.

“Now, that sounds a bit perverse, don’t you think, because we’ve got nothing to hide.

“I’m talking about transparency here.

“I, as the chair of 30,000 officers, am saying: put it out there.”

The federation represents thousands of rank and file officers in the London area.

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Good post, Hank.

Nice to see positive evidence driven support from Sir Steve House as well as the Federation.