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Old 18 May 19, 01:29 PM  
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#11
dot
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Thanks for the reply. I fly on the UC seats to MCO from MAN and the little arm rest goes down into the seat at the moment if you push the silver button on the top so giving a bit more room but on the new planes it looks static, I know the arm rests on the PE dont move and the headphone jack is in the side so with a big butt ( like mine ) it digs in the side of my leg. hopfully they will keep the 747 till the bitter end!
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Old 18 May 19, 04:40 PM  
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MariaLynda
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Hi, these new planes with the different premium seating, when are they rolling out in Manchester? 18 inches as mentioned above is well... rubbish, not really premium is it! I decided on our last trip that economy is just way too uncomfortable for 9+ hrs so its premium or nothing. Not liking the idea of ending up with the new narrower seats.

Any ideas?
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Old 18 May 19, 05:39 PM  
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A330 and A350 are smaller cabin widths, so, yes 20Ē width in UC, 17.7 in Premium economy, same as economy.

VA are also 20Ē width in CW, but 18.5 in WTP and 17.5Ē in economy.

Those widths seem to ve the industry standard
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Old 18 May 19, 07:55 PM  
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duncanb
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I will be throwing a spanner in works here but:
1 Have complainers flown on both?
2.Would you prefer to be less polluting for the sake of a inch or so?
3.Hand on heart is an old bit of c@#p (however nice it was in the day) really better than a modern bit of kit.
For me I've flown both the 747 Was lovely but is dial up internet.
The A350 is superior to a Dreamliner and flown that as well.
Progress is what it is, an old shed needs to be scrapped and that is what VA 747s are today.
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Old 18 May 19, 07:58 PM  
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ChrisS
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Originally Posted by dot View Post
Thanks for the reply. I fly on the UC seats to MCO from MAN and the little arm rest goes down into the seat at the moment if you push the silver button on the top so giving a bit more room but on the new planes it looks static, I know the arm rests on the PE dont move and the headphone jack is in the side so with a big butt ( like mine ) it digs in the side of my leg. hopfully they will keep the 747 till the bitter end!
Well, I'll go to the foot of our stairs Dot, perhaps the arm rest you refer to on the 747 was already down when we flew as neither of us remember it. Thanks for the heads up Dot

According to VA, unless it changes, their 747's will be phased out by 2021.

Originally Posted by MariaLynda View Post
Hi, these new planes with the different premium seating, when are they rolling out in Manchester? 18 inches as mentioned above is well... rubbish, not really premium is it! I decided on our last trip that economy is just way too uncomfortable for 9+ hrs so its premium or nothing. Not liking the idea of ending up with the new narrower seats.

Any ideas?
Hi ML, well, whilst not definitive (logistics could mean a different aircraft required at Man or LGW), a crew lass advised 'there'll always be a 747 on the MCO route til retirement'. Once the big boys are retired, it'll be interesting to see what VA line up as replacement, perhaps:

A330-300/A340-600 currently 21" of width in PE/38" of pitch, or,

A330-200, 17.7" of width/36" pitch, 4 of 'em leased when the RR Trent 1000 Dreamliners were returned to RR due to knacked engines.

If we want, as currently known, PE, we'll have to revert to MCO (keeping fingers crossed no aircraft change) or stay with Man to Atl to RSW, hoping for the A330-300. I concur ML, the latest numbers do not a PE seat make, especially as Warkman states width is 17.7", per economy, not the 18" I read. Initially it may be suck it and see.

Originally Posted by Warkman58 View Post
A330 and A350 are smaller cabin widths, so, yes 20Ē width in UC, 17.7 in Premium economy, same as economy.

VA are also 20Ē width in CW, but 18.5 in WTP and 17.5Ē in economy.

Those widths seem to be the industry standard
Hi WM, thanks for the info on seat width, it's worse than the 18" I'd read! Also my thoughts that VA're reducing their once regarded PE/UC seating widths to the industry standard. PE figures now only offer a couple more inches than extra legroom and wonder how they'll price these seats. These awld bones can't fly economy, we'll also consider Dublin to Fl in business class. I doubt we're the only PE travellers now contemplating flying business with other airlines.
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Old 18 May 19, 09:53 PM  
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Mr Tom Morrow
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Originally Posted by duncanb View Post
I will be throwing a spanner in works here but:
1 Have complainers flown on both?
2.Would you prefer to be less polluting for the sake of a inch or so?
3.Hand on heart is an old bit of c@#p (however nice it was in the day) really better than a modern bit of kit.
For me I've flown both the 747 Was lovely but is dial up internet.
The A350 is superior to a Dreamliner and flown that as well.
Progress is what it is, an old shed needs to be scrapped and that is what VA 747s are today.
Duncan. Heresy! They can't get rid of them, I love them!

Being serious. I wonder how much longer the newer Lufthansa 747's will last? Will they go onto the freight runs?

With regards to the narrower seats in the new VA aircraft I'm keeping my counsel until I have tried them. I lay money they will be awesome.
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Old 19 May 19, 01:17 AM  
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Originally Posted by duncanb View Post
I will be throwing a spanner in works here but:
1 Have complainers flown on both?
2.Would you prefer to be less polluting for the sake of a inch or so?
3.Hand on heart is an old bit of c@#p (however nice it was in the day) really better than a modern bit of kit.
For me I've flown both the 747 Was lovely but is dial up internet.
The A350 is superior to a Dreamliner and flown that as well.
Progress is what it is, an old shed needs to be scrapped and that is what VA 747s are today.
You may be confusing those sorry to see the 747 departure vs those disappointed re the demise of the larger PE seat. I'm indifferent re VA aircraft type, but I physically can't fit in a width of 17.7".

Originally Posted by Mr Tom Morrow View Post
With regards to the narrower seats in the new VA aircraft I'm keeping my counsel until I have tried them. I lay money they will be awesome.
Unfortunately Tom, with ample hips, plus TENs and bulky metal plated back brace there's no way I can, or will, be shoe-horned into a 17.7" (or 18.5" as the 8 April 2019 article below claims) wide seat with static armrests. Be interesting to see how VA market the reduced width PE seat. Your photo reflects you're a slim chap, a width reduction may not affect you, but after years of 21" of PE width coupled with your back issues I'll take your bet and raise you that you/lady wife will notice a significance difference.

A350-1000 article.
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Old 19 May 19, 02:22 PM  
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This is bad news for us too. There is no way either DH or I will fit in the narrower PE seats, so it sounds like our days of visiting Florida are numbered, which is a real shame. I would hate to be denied boarding when we simply do not fit. I really do not understand why airlines are reducing seat sizes when the population as a whole is getting bigger. From the sounds of it even UC would be a squeeze which is crazy.
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Old 19 May 19, 07:41 PM  
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May I ask... they retiring all the Dreamliners? Only I flew one LhR to NYC, it was a beauty compared the to old thing we got on return? Surely theyíd get rid/refit the old rubbish. Before retiring the dream liners?

Havenít flown the 747s in a while, though I tend to agree 18inch seat width canít be much better then Easyjet? I canít be paying PE prices to feel like Iím flying no frills with food - Iím also not willing to do long haul in regular econ for the night flight, so to get my hard earned cash in better be a damn site better then econ with exit row or extra legroom!

As for the original question, they will have to stay competitive so I canít see them increasing price too much because TUi and Norwegian still have a great product in the dreamliners - negating somewhat the Ďletís fly virgin for the nice shiny planeí effect. And most consumers are still going to buy by price and convenience (ie which airline gets me Gatwick to Florida, in the standard I want cheapest) loyalty to an airline is way less of a thing these days. Also if itís virgin Pe vs BA WTP you can bet your bucket Iím taking things like seat width into account before shiny plane syndrome.
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Old 20 May 19, 02:15 AM  
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Originally Posted by Jennywren View Post
This is bad news for us too. There is no way either DH or I will fit in the narrower PE seats, so it sounds like our days of visiting Florida are numbered, which is a real shame. I would hate to be denied boarding when we simply do not fit. I really do not understand why airlines are reducing seat sizes when the population as a whole is getting bigger. From the sounds of it even UC would be a squeeze which is crazy.
Hi JW, we're aiming for PE this coming winter (and with luck 2020) aboard the 747 or A330-300. We're hoping to avoid the A330-200, which may mean Man to MCO then driving SW - thereafter we'll cut our cloth and research flying business from Dublin.

One may say we've done quite nicely for many years with the original, bigger VA seat config, with Delta, KLM and AF pulling logistical strings perhaps they've insisted on VA matching the industry PE/UC standard to allow for more seating. VA's 747/A330-300 PE seat is wider at 21" than most American carriers business seat at 20". Understandably airlines have to maximise profit, if VA lose customers due to seat reduction, based on so many people flying, there may be others to take their place.

Originally Posted by Leggibone View Post
May I ask... they retiring all the Dreamliners? Only I flew one LhR to NYC, it was a beauty compared the to old thing we got on return? Surely theyíd get rid/refit the old rubbish. Before retiring the dream liners?

Havenít flown the 747s in a while, though I tend to agree 18inch seat width canít be much better then Easyjet? I canít be paying PE prices to feel like Iím flying no frills with food - Iím also not willing to do long haul in regular econ for the night flight, so to get my hard earned cash in better be a damn site better then econ with exit row or extra legroom!

As for the original question, they will have to stay competitive so I canít see them increasing price too much because TUi and Norwegian still have a great product in the dreamliners - negating somewhat the Ďletís fly virgin for the nice shiny planeí effect. And most consumers are still going to buy by price and convenience (ie which airline gets me Gatwick to Florida, in the standard I want cheapest) loyalty to an airline is way less of a thing these days. Also if itís virgin Pe vs BA WTP you can bet your bucket Iím taking things like seat width into account before shiny plane syndrome.
Hiya LB - apologies if I misunderstand your question re VA Dreamliners retiring, it's the 747's VA are putting out to pasture by 2021. When we flew home Tue 14th May the crew lass I was chatting with didn't know if their Dreamliners (which had 21" PE width) would return from RR after engine refurb. Re the four leased, ex Air Berlin, A330-200, according to an article (can I heck as like remember where I saw it) Air Berlin apparently held one of the worst long haul seat configs in Europe. I was unaware until I read Walkman's post that VA had refurbed the four 200 series to a 17.7"/36" PE seat config.

We chose VA purely for the PE seat, we appreciate the seat cushion coming to the back of the knee, providing good lower back/leg support, be interested to know if VA have reduced the seat cushion length after shaving 2" off the pitch.
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