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Old 10 Sep 21, 05:45 PM  
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Shifu
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Originally Posted by Nimbus View Post
I don't think Disney will be trying to "trick" anyone.

If you don't know what attractions you want to do and so have simply selected "family friendly attractions" in Genie and then ask it to give you the attraction with the shortest waits then of course it's going to suggest Philharmagic over 7DMT. There's no trickery there - the app is simply using the available data to provide you the best outcome based on your selection.

However, from the demo I've seen, you can specifically select the attractions you want to do. So if you select 7DMT then it will arrange your plan to provide the "best" time to ride it within your plan.

So, it all comes down to what you do with the app and how you use it.
So if Disney say “we suggest don’t do that right now, do this” we just have to trust their word on it?- you don’t think perhaps there will be any ( ok, another expression for trickery) ‘pulling the wool over anyone’s eyes’ to manoeuvre crowds to their own advantage and not necessarily the public’s?Whether it’s quicker or not?

It was just a thought.

We’ve all been in a line that says 45 minutes and it’s taken 10. How many have walked away on seeing 45 and gone on to a ‘lesser’ ride instead.
I dunno… I’m looking forward to seeing it get underway- would be great if it DID work to the customers advantage. Most of those disheartened by the thought of the up and coming process need a bit of a lift.
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Old 10 Sep 21, 06:03 PM  
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Originally Posted by mostlybobbins View Post
The perception is that there's some physical overlord that's overlooking Genie+ and pushing people around with a white cat on its lap trying to make guests have a bad time - but it's just data and algorithms.
But the cat on the lap version is so much more exciting. Can’t we just pretend, at least until Genie is released?😂
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Old 10 Sep 21, 06:09 PM  
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Nah, it's ruining the perception of this being a happy place 😂
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Old 10 Sep 21, 06:25 PM  
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loldis
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Originally Posted by Shifu View Post
But the cat on the lap version is so much more exciting. Can’t we just pretend, at least until Genie is released?😂
I'll happily pretend.

I don't think Disney are deliberately aiming to make the guest experience worse with Genie, I just don't think any of the changes they're making are about improving the guest experience. It's more of a bonus if it does. They've always walked a fine line between revenue and experience (even back in Walt's day) and have managed to get the balance right. They're just too heavily focused on the revenue streams now. Which is potentially a dangerous position for DPEP to be in when looking long term.

But as long as they keep churning out the Insta-worthy merch and snacks, they'll probably survive just fine.
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Old 10 Sep 21, 06:36 PM  
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dan223
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Originally Posted by Shifu View Post
So if Disney say “we suggest don’t do that right now, do this” we just have to trust their word on it?- you don’t think perhaps there will be any ( ok, another expression for trickery) ‘pulling the wool over anyone’s eyes’ to manoeuvre crowds to their own advantage and not necessarily the public’s?Whether it’s quicker or not?

It was just a thought.

We’ve all been in a line that says 45 minutes and it’s taken 10. How many have walked away on seeing 45 and gone on to a ‘lesser’ ride instead.
I dunno… I’m looking forward to seeing it get underway- would be great if it DID work to the customers advantage. Most of those disheartened by the thought of the up and coming process need a bit of a lift.
Why would it be in Disney interest to push people to certain rides and not spread the crowds across the park cutting down wait times. Queue times are nearly always less than the stated time as Disney doesn’t want to disappoint anyone and make them wait longer. Saying that the queue times are always delayed to some point, at least on my last visit they use to give out cards that they would give to visitors to measure how long the queue is, I assume they use algorithms based on that to work out how long the queue is, not sure if they still do that with covid now, and I’m sure there algos may be off slightly because of that. However generally if the queue time is well off it is because something has impacted it, rain, ride break down etc
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Old 10 Sep 21, 06:57 PM  
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Originally Posted by Shifu View Post
So if Disney say “we suggest don’t do that right now, do this” we just have to trust their word on it?- you don’t think perhaps there will be any ( ok, another expression for trickery) ‘pulling the wool over anyone’s eyes’ to manoeuvre crowds to their own advantage and not necessarily the public’s?Whether it’s quicker or not?

It was just a thought.

We’ve all been in a line that says 45 minutes and it’s taken 10. How many have walked away on seeing 45 and gone on to a ‘lesser’ ride instead.
I dunno… I’m looking forward to seeing it get underway- would be great if it DID work to the customers advantage. Most of those disheartened by the thought of the up and coming process need a bit of a lift.
I actually don't think is guest manipulation, but rather operational changes. To give you an example, say you see a 45 minute wait at Toy Story Mania. This might be because only one track is running. But if a second track opens immediately after you enter, it will halve the wait. If they open all three tracks, that 45 minute wait suddenly drops to 15. And if they manage to get through the load cycles slightly faster than average, it'll drop even further. They do slightly over-estimate their queues, but generally there is isn't a massive difference between the posted and observed wait times. Looking at 7DMT yesterday, the average posted wait was 45 minutes and average observed was 40.

Saying that, they definitely do manipulate the capacity of their rides throughout the day, but this is purely cost cutting rather than experience related. Fewer tracks open in lower demand periods means less staff to operate and reduced running/maintenance costs on the ride itself. It will be interesting to see how this will be impacted with Genie. If they're directing people to lower demand attractions, they will need to up the capacity to support it. Which is not how they've been operating in recent years.

Edited at 08:34 PM.
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Old 14 Sep 21, 07:23 AM  
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i very much doubt the queues will be nefariously manipulated. Afterall, the only way to do this is to slow the loading and unloading. This will mean staff are told to run faster or slower or staff are pulled/pushed onto extra lanes/tracks midway. Extra tracks and lanes are opened and closed throughout the day, this is normal but it is planned in advance or due to staff shortages, not because of an algorithm Disney wont wont staff sat doing nothing. Lanes and tracks or cars are not just randomly added or removed at a whim, there are startup safety procedures. Some rides dont have extra lanes and tracks so manipulation would be a "staff told to go slow". Good luck keeping that under wraps from leaks.

Genie+ is there to monetise big queues. Afterall, people stood in a 45 min queue arent spending in the shops or stalls, they are eating their brought in bag snacks and drinks.

FP+ was free, it cut some queues for people but again was not a monetisation.

Edited at 07:30 AM.
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Old 14 Sep 21, 09:22 AM  
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I have been using TPs since the days of having a runner to pick up paper fast passes. They have consistently provided the best evidenced plans for cutting time in lines. I shall be following whatever they come up with when Genie Plus is in place. The best measure of future success is past success. TPs beats Disney hands down for me.
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Old 14 Sep 21, 10:14 AM  
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Originally Posted by scoobydooby View Post
I have been using TPs since the days of having a runner to pick up paper fast passes. They have consistently provided the best evidenced plans for cutting time in lines. I shall be following whatever they come up with when Genie Plus is in place. The best measure of future success is past success. TPs beats Disney hands down for me.
An interesting thought, the difference is here that Genie will potentially change TP's plans which TP won't have statistics on for a while, and Disney have much more data than TP will to predict. Genie will also be a live version of TP, so if something happens in the park, ride breaks down, storm etc, Genie will be adjusting all the time, TP will be static. It will be interesting for sure, but I can't see how TP will be better than Genie unless Disney have done an awful job of implementing it.
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Old 14 Sep 21, 10:47 AM  
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Originally Posted by dan223 View Post
TP will be static.
This isn't right - unless you're using a paper touring plan.

The touring plans app has been able to handle ride closures since 2016 (touringplans/blog/park-t...ride-closures/) even when I first used it in 2013 it had live information on official wait times as well as the TP estimates.
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