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Unread 19 May 19, 07:58 AM  
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Originally Posted by bennyboy0751 View Post
i waspaying direct debit to be fair they have refunded minus deposit but as said rebooked with kenwood travel even with deposit loss 300 pounds gain
I am sorry but paying for a holiday by direct debit seems utter madness what possible benefit is there ?

You dont gain interest on your money and unless part was paid by credit card you have no s35 protection and if you want to cancel this far usually they would only Be holding your deposit.

Far better to set up savings account pay to that monthly and then pay by credit card and clear from savings account you may also get cash back or miles. Seems like pure stupidity to me.
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Unread 19 May 19, 08:02 AM  
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really thats how thomas cook does it thankyou we are not all interested in interest what a couple of quid lol you are fully protected as well just thought id let you know
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Unread 19 May 19, 08:05 AM  
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this is financial times friday and yes people will say tcook okay but thats not what the experts say they are relying on selling airline but that does not look good either im not here to cause trouble just open eyes for people to make their own descions thats all so please no negative comments just constructive we are family of dibber and we need to work together some dibbers may need our help simple


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Latest on Thomas Cook Group PLC
Thomas Cook faces tough task to fly itself out of trouble

Thomas Cooks 1bn writedown shows airline sale is no rest cure

Thomas Cook takes 1bn writedown and slides to record loss

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Thomas Cook risks collapse as stock dives
Shareholders braced for wipeout as fears mount over summer travel bookings

Shares in Thomas Cook tumbled 39 per cent on Friday Getty
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Daniel Thomas, Alice Hancock and Myles McCormick in London MAY 17, 2019 Print this page155
Thomas Cook shares were branded worthless on Friday, triggering a collapse in the value of the UKs oldest travel business and raising concerns among customers travelling this summer to its holiday resorts around the world.

Shares in the 178-year-old group fell almost 40 per cent on Friday after Citigroup said it was at risk of a vicious cycle. It warned that customers could be unsettled after Thomas Cook reported a pre-tax loss of 1.5bn this week and revealed its auditor had noted material uncertainties over the successful sale of the groups airline business and a new credit facility.

Thomas Cook, which is suffering under high debts and concerns over demand for traditional package holidays amid Brexit uncertainty, has raced to shore up its balance sheet.

But the FT has learnt that US hedge funds have taken stakes in the companys bonds as well as its revolving credit facility, positioning themselves for a potential restructuring of the companys debt that would wipe out shareholders in the business and leave debt holders in control.

It is only two years ago that this business was making 250m of profit and I do think it is capable of getting back to those kind of levels in more normal market conditions

Steve Davis, fund manager of the Jupiter UK Growth Fund
Investors including Anchorage, TT International and Whitebox have emerged as among the biggest short sellers of Thomas Cook stock in effect benefiting from bets on a fall in its share price. But at least two of these TT and Whitebox have also taken stakes in the companys debt, according to people familiar with the situation, which would allow them a role in any debt-for-equity swap if needed to secure the companys future.

Citigroup also said the group would likely need to be rescued by raising money through new shares, or through a debt-for-equity swap.

One top 10 shareholder said that it would even back a sale of the whole of the Thomas Cook business, depending on the price and should the sale of the airline business not be enough to restore financial stability. At this point in time the balance sheet issues need to be sorted out and if that means getting into bed with someone with deeper pockets then so be it, he said.

Some shareholders rallied around the group on Friday. Steve Davies, fund manager of the Jupiter UK Growth Fund, a top five shareholder, said: It is only two years ago that this business was making 250m of profit and I do think it is capable of getting back to those kind of levels in more normal market conditions.

Fosun, the Chinese conglomerate that also owns almost a fifth of Thomas Cooks shares, has been touted by analysts as a potential source of rescue funds, but one person close to the company said it was not certain that Fosun could put more money into a foreign business given its own target for reducing debt. Fosun did not respond to a request for comment on the matter.

James Ainley, the Citi analyst, said the groups high debts meant that he saw option value only remaining in TCGs equity.

The warning from the influential investment bank heaped further pressure on Thomas Cook, exacerbating doubts over its ability to continue trading. Shares in the company tumbled 39 per cent on Friday to 11.8p.


The groups bond maturing in 2020 was on Friday trading at less than 50 per cent of face value a heavily distressed price having been at about 65 per cent at the end of last week.

The cost to insure against a bond default using five-year credit default swaps rose to 50 percentage points upfront, according to Bloomberg data, meaning it now costs $50m to insure $100m of debt, on top of $5m a year in premiums. The contracts also show that traders are favouring short-term protection, fearing an imminent default.

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The company disclosed on Thursday that it had agreed a new 300m lending facility. However, the new financing arrangement would be principally dependent on progress in executing the strategic review of the group airline.

Sten Daugaard, Thomas Cooks chief financial officer, said the new loan facility would give the group headroom during the low winter season, and was calculated on an absolute worst case scenario.

Thomas Cook on Thursday sought to assure investors that it had a number of credible bids for its airline, which it put up for sale in February. But Citi said it struggled to see the company receiving a high enough offer to prevent the deal being dilutive to earnings.

Lufthansa previously confirmed it had registered a bid for Thomas Cooks airline and Virgin Atlantic has also been linked to the sale. Thomas Cook on Thursday would not confirm any bidders and said it would update the stock market in due course.

Additional reporting by Robert Smith in London and Don Weinland in Beijing

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Latest on Thomas Cook Group PLC
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Thomas Cooks 1bn writedown shows airline sale is no rest cure

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FakeCharmer 32 minutes ago
Investors including Anchorage, TT International and Whitebox have emerged as among the biggest short sellers of Thomas Cook stock in effect benefiting from bets on a fall in its share price

They would not execute this in the US, as they would get whacked with gargantuan fines by regulators with teeth. Here, after a five year enquiry by the SFO, they will get a slap on the wrist fine.

We really think London is the financial epicentre of the world, more laundering centre with clueless governance.


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Hastings 2 hours ago
Maybe its time for companies to start charging enough for their products and services to survive. While you might lose a number of customers who are always scanning for the lowest prices you could focus on the customers you keep and offer them better quality and service. You can as a company never win the price-reaction game. With online data available to the consumer, the company lowering its price the most will often get the customers chasing the lowest price. While Im sure there are plenty of customers who pay full price for the services of Thomas Cook there are likely also a lot of customers who pay a price that in the end is not profitable. Probably better to operate on a lower scale, with less revenue but with more profitability, serving a group of customers who like the brand and are willing to pay enough for its services.

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Meller 8 hours ago
Glad to hear it., couldn't have happened to a nicer bunch of cretins.

Made the mistake of booking a last minute getaway (first time I'd ever even thought of flying with them) last year and the disgusting cash extraction prior to flying (both legs) due to luggage allowances that are not so obvious was pathetic.

Hope that 120 goes some way to servicing the debt and saving the job of the agent at he gate that seemed unreasonable excited to charge a customer for being 0.5kg over the limit!

Turns out a viable business model is to RETAIN customers, not churn them.≈




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- 9 hours ago
What an interesting trade - ≈i hear of this more and more. Identify a company in difficulty that could be turned around, buy the debt and short the shares. Given the sophistication of the modern financial system, perhaps the rights of equity and dept holders should be given parity - this might force them to align their interests and work together for the good of the company and stakeholders.

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Wilber 9 hours ago
If equity and debt were treated equally then why would you lend to a company? The equity get the upside but debt ranks ahead. How does that work if they are treated equally?

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Oil Barren 10 hours ago
Lenders should start helping in business strategy rather than being vultures when a company fails. Shareholders do not always have an all round view and need help, not irresponsible lending.

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Xenon 17 hours ago
Well I hope they stay in business and keep flying until June 1 or there will be a lot of upset football fans!

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MaxSense 17 hours ago
How about a law that would allow a wipe out of debt-holders instead while keeping the company alive?

That should inject reality check to the market so lenders would think twice before offering capital and companies would find it impossible to accumulate improper debt.


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ConnDublin 14 hours ago
Isn't preventing the company from taking on improper debt the role of the Board, on behalf of shareholders?

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Upaswellasdown 12 hours ago
@MaxSense - Thomas Cook will survive just as Debenhams has. The lenders will take over and finally implement the sort of modernisation / breakup that the board should have done 4 years ago

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Kalias 10 hours ago
It already exists - this is one of the basic premises of insolvency law. If the underlying business is profitable, it will be sold as a going concern. The debt holders get first lien on the sale proceeds, and if the value of the debt exceeds this amount, they lose money.

If the underlying business is loss-making on an operating basis though, it would need to borrow yet more money just to keep trading - at which point it usually gets liquidated. Typically resulting in a massive loss for the debt holders.


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Phantom Menace 17 hours ago
TT International and Whitebox short selling of the company's shares, while owning the company's debt, which would wipe out shareholder in a restructuring exercise, amounts to market manipulation.≈ I look forward to the regulatory authorities fining these firms, while Serious Fraud Office brings criminal proceedings.≈ I am fed up of this kind of unethical behaviour by US hedge funds.≈ They only destroy value and livelihoods.≈ There is nothing clever about buying debt and short selling share to wipe out those with long positions.

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Don King 18 hours ago
This is slightly worrying as having had to cancel our Sri Lanka holiday we rebooked with Thomas Cook for a flight only to Mexico! I cannot see that their are substantial assets for secured lending so I hope there is little incentive to put TC down. I will investigate but any bright thoughts from the better informed?

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DND 19 hours ago
The age of the consumer.≈

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Unread 19 May 19, 08:14 AM  
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Originally Posted by bennyboy0751 View Post
really thats how thomas cook does it thankyou we are not all interested in interest what a couple of quid lol you are fully protected as well just thought id let you know
Originally Posted by bennyboy0751 View Post
really thats how thomas cook does it thankyou we are not all interested in interest what a couple of quid lol you are fully protected as well just thought id let you know
I think you are scare mongering you have already realised you made a bad choice booking who you booked with and when hence being able to book much later with a different company for 800 less.

You took a service that TC offered to pay by DD which is the daftest way to pay anything you are not getting for a year in advance where you can pay a small deposit and the rest later leaving you in control. Even if you wealthy enough not to worry about a little bit on interest if there is a way to save a few quid doing exactly the same process why would you not do it ?

You have taken advice from a top manager but have not stated what this means unless he is very senior in the parent company or finance team he will no nothing more that you and I do from the press, if he does and he has passed it to you he will have broken his confidentiality clause in his contract and you posting this on an Internet forum is probably not very wise.

Of course its your right to cancel your holiday and pay for it in whatever way you choose but I dont think it right for you to scare others particularly with the information form a top manager

Oh an you last post has just broken this sites rules and the copyright rules from the FT
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Unread 19 May 19, 08:23 AM  
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really thats your opinion but the article i just published is fact not fiction but you can ignore it ive been bitten before not happening again thankyou by the way you dont know me at all so id appreciate less personal attacks on my integrity please as this is the dibb its here to keep people informed you may be an imagineer im not new to the dibb i left for a few years ive been with dibb since begining and see we have to tell all not suger coat it there is something serious going on at thomas cook and its our duty to tell people they have a right to know by the way if i named people in company they would be in trouble thankyou
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Unread 19 May 19, 08:28 AM  
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Originally Posted by Sew109 View Post
I think you are scare mongering you have already realised you made a bad choice booking who you booked with and when hence being able to book much later with a different company for 800 less.

You took a service that TC offered to pay by DD which is the daftest way to pay anything you are not getting for a year in advance where you can pay a small deposit and the rest later leaving you in control. Even if you wealthy enough not to worry about a little bit on interest if there is a way to save a few quid doing exactly the same process why would you not do it ?

You have taken advice from a top manager but have not stated what this means unless he is very senior in the parent company or finance team he will no nothing more that you and I do from the press, if he does and he has passed it to you he will have broken his confidentiality clause in his contract and you posting this on an Internet forum is probably not very wise.

Of course its your right to cancel your holiday and pay for it in whatever way you choose but I dont think it right for you to scare others particularly with the information form a top manager

Oh an you last post has just broken this sites rules and the copyright rules from the FT
If you read all the posts the OP states that the advice came from his son who is a top manager for TUI who also happen to be in financial trouble (along with pretty much every airline to some extent including Virgin and BA - but shhhh we wont mention that)
He also keeps mentioning Thompson which ceased trading under that name and became TUI for the same reason that Thomas Cook is reporting now.
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Unread 19 May 19, 08:33 AM  
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Originally Posted by bennyboy0751 View Post
really thats your opinion but the article i just published is fact not fiction but you can ignore it ive been bitten before not happening again thankyou by the way you dont know me at all so id appreciate less personal attacks on my integrity please as this is the dibb its here to keep people informed you may be an imagineer im not new to the dibb i left for a few years ive been with dibb since begining and see we have to tell all not suger coat it there is something serious going on at thomas cook and its our duty to tell people they have a right to know by the way if i named people in company they would be in trouble thankyou
There is nothing personal in what I have written I have not questioned your integrity only what I think are flaws in you processes and that your opinion is just that.

Your son saying that they will go under in a couple of months or someone telling him that is not fact it is gossip and hearsay nothing more .

If I was paying for something I had not received by direct debit I would probably be far more worried than if I had used a more sensible form of payment.

Your statement posted from the FT is a breach of copyright that is a fact you can post a link to it but not copy and paste all or part of it.

The majority of the loss is a write off form the purchase of travel up (I think that is what it is called) not trading profit.
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Unread 19 May 19, 08:36 AM  
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where did i mention thompson sorry im done with this post you have been told and shown the evidence direct from financial times yes other companies are struggling but not in this league tried to help but cant help turkeys who want to vote for christmas we will see what happen over next couple of months

Edited at 08:37 AM.
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