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Old 21 Sep 20, 08:08 AM  
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#11
Ritz
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Will be interesting to see what data they use. If they roll out the ZOE data I'm switching off, as that currently is unreliable at best.
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Old 21 Sep 20, 08:08 AM  
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#12
LoopyLoo07
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Originally Posted by P&S View Post
I'm glad they are doing this people need good clear information at this time to hopefully stop the panic buying and anxiety people are feeling.
Unfortunately I think it will do the opposite!
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Old 21 Sep 20, 08:12 AM  
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Originally Posted by johnandmaz View Post
A question many have asked this past 8 months.

The papers have already been briefed by the Government (again) what's going to be said. We're all in the last chance saloon or lockdown awaits. I just wish they'd tell me what I'm doing wrong because honestly - I haven't got a clue.

But the tactic has worked. Most of us are now blaming ourselves, our neighbours or the people we see in the street. Takes attention away from any leadership, management or accountability issues. Job done.
Most people are not doing anything wrong, except our leadership. Knee jerk responses, no cohesive strategy, listening to only one side of the ‘science’, even from SAGE.
Studies from all over the world are beginning to demonstrate that whatever actions governments take, the outcomes are pretty much the same.

I am furious about being asked to become a Stasi informer and will never comply with it
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Old 21 Sep 20, 08:13 AM  
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johnandmaz
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Originally Posted by Sue View Post
I’ve started to call Chris Whitty after Grima Wormtongue, the ‘advisor’ who dripped poison into the ear of the controlled King of Rohan in Lord of the Rings.
He is a real doomsayer, who only cares about this virus with seemingly no interest in the negative effects unrelated to actually having it, that affect people’s lives so badly (social, economic, psychological, basic human rights, just those trivial things).
Possibly as an individual you may be right.

However, as Bozza posted earlier, along with the Prof Ferguson they seem to have become the focal point of the people who don't agree with their views and want an alternative.

But Whitty and Ferguson are not the leaders or managers of the situation. As you know, there are numerous scientists and economists on the AGE committee advising the government. all I'm sure with varying opinions and expertise. And advice being the vital word.

Any leader is accountable in any situation they make decisions. Take all the professional opinions and make your choice. Are people saying that Boris is just a quivering jelly being bullied into decisions by a sole elderly scientist. If that's the case - he is not fit to be the leader of a scout troop never mind the country.

Some people bring it up to absolve Boris of any responsibility for his actions - except if it's a popular decision of course.
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Old 21 Sep 20, 08:14 AM  
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marypoppins38
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I use the Zoe app and have always felt the questions were worded quite ambiguously.
I am feeling physically normal
Or
I’m not feeling quite right.
I often wonder how many people might wake up with a headache or upset tummy and click ‘I’m not feeling quite right’. They would be correct in their answer but would this then be classed as a ‘hit’ on their app?
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Old 21 Sep 20, 08:14 AM  
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Originally Posted by megaflyer View Post
I pay no attention to Whitty - he is a one horse race and not once has he cared about the effects on say mental health or the economy.

I wont be watching or taking heed form this Dominic Cummings arranged press Conference
They also currently appear to be listening to Neil Ferguson again? How many chances to be wrong does this man get and still keep his job, whilst all over the country, lives are being ruined?
His model has been proven to be significantly flawed yet he’s trotting out stats from it again
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Old 21 Sep 20, 08:18 AM  
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#17
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Originally Posted by johnandmaz View Post
Possibly as an individual you may be right.

However, as Bozza posted earlier, along with the Prof Ferguson they seem to have become the focal point of the people who don't agree with their views and want an alternative.

But Whitty and Ferguson are not the leaders or managers of the situation. As you know, there are numerous scientists and economists on the AGE committee advising the government. all I'm sure with varying opinions and expertise. And advice being the vital word.

Any leader is accountable in any situation they make decisions. Take all the professional opinions and make your choice. Are people saying that Boris is just a quivering jelly being bullied into decisions by a sole elderly scientist. If that's the case - he is not fit to be the leader of a scout troop never mind the country.

Some people bring it up to absolve Boris of any responsibility for his actions - except if it's a popular decision of course.
I like your balanced view but part of my point is that the government appears to NOT be listening to other members of SAGE - Professors Gupta and Heneghan regularly appear in the media asking for facts and balance in regard to government actions but are ignored.
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Old 21 Sep 20, 08:20 AM  
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#18
johnandmaz
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Originally Posted by Sue View Post
Most people are not doing anything wrong,
Totally agree but for some reason I still feel guilty and I know not why.

But I guess that's the point. That's the strategy. It's our fault for not following the rules rather than competence of leadership. I'm sure there'll be a large majority of people angry who'll still vote for this government in next election and they know it.

Apologies for straying into the political arena.
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Old 21 Sep 20, 08:23 AM  
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Originally Posted by megaflyer View Post
I pay no attention to Whitty - he is a one horse race and not once has he cared about the effects on say mental health or the economy.
That's not actually true though, is it, although I appreciate it doesn't fit your narrative. Witty made it very clear in the early days that the threats from Covid-19 are many.

Chris Witty to the Science and Technology Committee on the 24th April:

"One of the things that I've tried to say several times in public and I will say again here is that in terms of looking at just the public health, there are four forms of major negative impact on health, just narrowly health that this epidemic is going to have.

"There's direct deaths from people dying of Covid with the NHS working well, there are indirect deaths because the NHS got overwhelmed which it has not due to the fantastic work of the whole of the UK public, as well as the absolutely remarkable work of the NHS, it has not. But that was the second risk of overwhelming the emergency services.

"The third one is the indirect deaths caused by downscaling other health issues and public health issues, elective surgery, where health problems are probably going to come back where people have delayed things or stuff hasn't been picked up or dealt with earlier than it otherwise will now be and this is an indirect effect.

"The final one though, and this is absolutely within the scope of Sage (Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies), and we've looked at this, is we all know that there is a gradient between health and deprivation and if as a result of economic downturns for prolonged periods, deprivation increases, that will have a health effect."
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Old 21 Sep 20, 08:34 AM  
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marypoppins38
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Originally Posted by Bozza View Post
That's not actually true though, is it, although I appreciate it doesn't fit your narrative. Witty made it very clear in the early days that the threats from Covid-19 are many.

Chris Witty to the Science and Technology Committee on the 24th April:

"One of the things that I've tried to say several times in public and I will say again here is that in terms of looking at just the public health, there are four forms of major negative impact on health, just narrowly health that this epidemic is going to have.

"There's direct deaths from people dying of Covid with the NHS working well, there are indirect deaths because the NHS got overwhelmed which it has not due to the fantastic work of the whole of the UK public, as well as the absolutely remarkable work of the NHS, it has not. But that was the second risk of overwhelming the emergency services.

"The third one is the indirect deaths caused by downscaling other health issues and public health issues, elective surgery, where health problems are probably going to come back where people have delayed things or stuff hasn't been picked up or dealt with earlier than it otherwise will now be and this is an indirect effect.

"The final one though, and this is absolutely within the scope of Sage (Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies), and we've looked at this, is we all know that there is a gradient between health and deprivation and if as a result of economic downturns for prolonged periods, deprivation increases, that will have a health effect."
Then why has he opted to follow a singular path and ignored all the other causes?
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