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Old 21 Sep 20, 08:35 AM  
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#21
WhereIBelong
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I've followed the rules. But going by the words of work colleagues I know I am quite literally in the minority.

People going to parents anniversaries/kids birthdays - 15/20 people sitting indoors all scrunched together for photos... which get put on facebook etc ... "oh, is it not allowed?", "but they are all family", "they meet all these kids at school every day, why not in our play room?".

It is as if this is the new normal. Some people doing everything in their power to follow the rules, a heck of a lot thinking there are not really any rules any more except wearing a mask in a shop - since it has gone on so long.
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Old 21 Sep 20, 08:38 AM  
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Originally Posted by marypoppins38 View Post
Then why has he opted to follow a singular path and ignored all the other causes?
Sorry - you're going to have to explain what you mean if I'm able to reply.
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Old 21 Sep 20, 08:39 AM  
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johnandmaz
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Originally Posted by marypoppins38 View Post
Then why has he opted to follow a singular path and ignored all the other causes?
Well. Chris Whitty hasn't. He has given his advice to the best of his expertise along with all the other views in SAGE.

Whitty does not make decisions or compose Government policies.

The question was asked where's Boris? Hiding because he knows it's an unpopular decision. Put Whitty on the podium and he can take all the flak. I can't imagine that working though, we're all far too intelligent for that...
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Old 21 Sep 20, 08:42 AM  
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Iíve heard Chris Whitty say on a few occasions that the response to COVID would have wider ramifications on other conditions, mental health etc.

He may not be flagging these issues as often as people would like, however he has mentioned them and spoke quite eloquently about the impact lockdown would have on things like domestic abuse etc.

Do I think he and Vallance have done a perfect job? No, absolutely not.

Do I think they themselves would admit that? Yes and I think they have on at least one occasion

Iím a scientist by background so might be biased but I trust them a lot more than I trust the government.
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Old 21 Sep 20, 08:48 AM  
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Originally Posted by HelenLime View Post
Iíve heard Chris Whitty say on a few occasions that the response to COVID would have wider ramifications than on other conditions, mental health etc.

He may not be flagging these issues as often as people would like, however he has mentioned them and spoke quite eloquently about the impact lockdown would have on things like domestic abuse etc.

Do I think he and Vallance have done a perfect job? No, absolutely not.

Do I think they themselves would admit that? Yes and I think they have on at least one occasion

Iím a scientist by background so might be biased but I trust them a lot more than I trust the government.
Quite.

Even if you ignore what he has said, repeatedly, it is absolutely ridiculous to suggest the country's Chief Medical Officer has no interest, concern nor awareness of the "bigger picture", because that is absolutely what his job is to be focused upon.

I absolutely understand that some people may see Whitty as a spectre of doom, that his cautious approach doesn't marry up with the wishes of others to be more gung-ho but he can only call it as he sees it - and he'll be one of many voices advising government - who will listen to those, many of which will differ at times, and make a decision.
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Old 21 Sep 20, 09:08 AM  
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Sue
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Originally Posted by HelenLime View Post
Iíve heard Chris Whitty say on a few occasions that the response to COVID would have wider ramifications on other conditions, mental health etc.

He may not be flagging these issues as often as people would like, however he has mentioned them and spoke quite eloquently about the impact lockdown would have on things like domestic abuse etc.

Do I think he and Vallance have done a perfect job? No, absolutely not.

Do I think they themselves would admit that? Yes and I think they have on at least one occasion

Iím a scientist by background so might be biased but I trust them a lot more than I trust the government.
As a scientist, can you then tell me why, in your opinion, some scientists are repeatedly ignored when they have the same backgrounds and expertise as those who are front and centre in advising on strategy?
Scientists donít always get it right - over the years, they have told us that the sun went round the earth and that the earth was flat for example.
I just donít like being part of an experiment that has the potential to be shown up as seriously flawed in a few years time
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Old 21 Sep 20, 09:12 AM  
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Removing Boris to try to remove the political is worth a try.
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Old 21 Sep 20, 09:12 AM  
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The problem is that many young people don't watch the news or the daily briefings , most of my students live in their own bubble and don't engage with the wider world. when i ask them if they saw/rad/heard about a particular topic ( CV, global warming. stabbing, black lives matter) some have an opinion but most just say they don't follow the news so have no idea about it.
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Old 21 Sep 20, 09:16 AM  
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lizzie145
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this is an interesting article.

"Covid: Is it time we learnt to live with the virus?"

bbc/news/health-54228649
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Old 21 Sep 20, 09:20 AM  
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HelenLime
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Originally Posted by Sue View Post
As a scientist, can you then tell me why some scientists are repeatedly ignored when they have the same backgrounds and expertise as those who are front and centre in advising on strategy?
Scientists donít always get it right - over the years, they have told us that the sun went round the earth and that the earth was flat for example.
I just donít like being part of an experiment that has the potential to be shown up as seriously flawed in a few years time

I donít understand the inner machinations of SAGE - I wish I did.
There are so many opinions out there, so many different ways of looking at the data, so much confirmation bias from us all (I include myself in this).
The thing about science is, as you say with your flat earth example, itís all a hypothesis until proven or disproven. Even when things have been proved to be true based on what we know at the time, future evidence may subsequently disprove it. I believe vallance himself has made this point.

What the CMO and CSO do is advise the government based on their current assessment of the evidence - is that advice followed? If so to what extent?They donít make the decisions. Thatís the job of government. I donít envy the government in having to make those decisions but nor do I think they are doing the best job that they can in a) managing the virus and b) managing wider impacts. I suspect if a better job had been done with the former then the latter wouldnít be as difficult.

I agree with you entirely that itís disconcerting in the extreme to feel like we are part of a big experiment - when we look back on this in five years time will we have done the right things?

Edited at 09:21 AM.
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