Out of term

[hilz22]

Originally Posted by legallyblonde

1. I never said it was an easy job;
2. Who mentioned a call centre?
3. I was simply saying that many other jobs have similar pressures without so many perks and therefore on balance, from the outside looking in, it seems like overall a good career. I was asking why therefore, teachers seem so very unhappy. Yes, it is stressful, but they have good pensions, good holiday, no childcare issues, and it is rewarding. Exactly what most would want out of a career so I was genuinely wondering why the unhappiness.

I am not so naive to think that teachers don’t have planning, marking etc and that this is done outside usual hours and in the holidays, but these are hours people in the private sector work anyway so how is that any different? I have many teacher friends. I have asked them genuinely how much time of the 13 weeks holiday over the year they spend working and they said about 4 weeks planning, marking etc - that still equates to 9 weeks holiday a year. So the stress in my view would be worth it, on balance and you all continue to do it, so I presume you agree?

See more...

Completely agree teaching is a hard job, but so is mine, so is dh’s so is our neighbours, but its the line of work we decidedon. There is a lot of perks to a teachers job. Just like there is perks in my job. But no one complains more than teachers.
I will stand down now and wait for the stone throwing to commence.

[Tretinker]

Originally Posted by legallyblonde

1. I never said it was an easy job;
2. Who mentioned a call centre?
3. I was simply saying that many other jobs have similar pressures without so many perks and therefore on balance, from the outside looking in, it seems like overall a good career. I was asking why therefore, teachers seem so very unhappy. Yes, it is stressful, but they have good pensions, good holiday, no childcare issues, and it is rewarding. Exactly what most would want out of a career so I was genuinely wondering why the unhappiness.

I am not so naive to think that teachers don’t have planning, marking etc and that this is done outside usual hours and in the holidays, but these are hours people in the private sector work anyway so how is that any different? I have many teacher friends. I have asked them genuinely how much time of the 13 weeks holiday over the year they spend working and they said about 4 weeks planning, marking etc - that still equates to 9 weeks holiday a year. So the stress in my view would be worth it, on balance and you all continue to do it, so I presume you agree?

See more...

I think it's really hard as different schools have different expectations, I would estimate most of our teachers get 4-6 weeks holiday based on the contact I have during the holiday, our school opens at 6:30am and closes at 6:30pm with most in those hours and walk out the door with boxes of books but our school has VERY high standards. And this means childcare is still required and an issue...

Until you've worked in a school environment it is a very difficult to explain what it's like. But I would never teach so I don't do it just witness it I don't know a teacher that complains any more about work than anyone else, I only see/hear them get told they can't complain because they have it easy I think that's the difference.

Back to the OP, only you know how your children will cope. I have taken mine out without detriment I feel but I wasn't fined as only 2 or 3 days, you may get fined if 5 or more but its probably still cheaper for you if you factor in just in case.

[may]

Originally Posted by legallyblonde

Look, I don’t mean to offend and apologies if I have. I completely respect the profession. I’ve no doubt in my mind that it’s a stressful job, but at the same token it is surely a worthwhile job that must be rewarding? It also has tremendous perks in comparison to other equally (or more) stressful jobs and it’s for this reason that perhaps it’s always a sore subject and frustrating for people in the private sector when teachers always seem so unhappy and hard done by? I’m genuinely interested to understand why this is the case and if you would prefer to be in private sector, why you think it is any better? Honestly not looking to frustrate anyone, just want to understand your viewpoint on that and understand why the profession just seems miserable and why they think the grass is any greener elsewhere. Is it just that we hear more about/from the profession because it affects so many of us? I don’t know. 🤔 Let’s face it, none of us really want to work and would rather be in Florida 6 months of the year but that’s life hey!? 🤦🏻😬

See more...

You've just inspired me to dig out something constructed by the head at a large inner city primary I did some supply in.
He was under pressure from parents because dwindling teacher numbers meant he was having trouble filling job vacancies appropriately.
He was also frustrated because honest attempts to discuss and alter the factors leading to the dwindling numbers were viewed as " a sore subject and frustrating for people in the private sector"
So one sleepless night he worked the problem out mathematically in a very rough manner.He wasn't claiming it was correct for every situation or even precise for his. It just served to illustrate the basic issue. I hope I'm copying it out accurately

A nominal average worker 9 - 5. half an hour for lunch, 7.5 hours a day, 37.5 hours a week, 46.4 weeks = 1740 hours often with the upper limit regulated by contract.

A nominal teacher in his large inner city primary school where children were present 8.40 to 3.30
Planning 1 hour
Preparation and brief meeting before school - 45 minutes
average face to face with children allowing for removal of 15 minute break, 1 hour lunch, and 10% PPA time - 5 hours
preparation etc in childrens lunch time 30 minutes
allowing an average class size of 27- marking of 1 piece of English, 1 piece of Maths and 1 other subject, allowing 2 minutes per piece, 2 hours 42 minutes
9 hours 57 mins a day, call it 10 hours, 50 hour week , 40 weeks, 2000 hours.

Teaching contracts have no upper limit as such, they specify that a teacher must do 1265 directed hours plus whatever else is needed so you will need to add in playground duties, a longer staff meeting weekly, parental queries, performance of curriculum lead role, parents evenings , report writing , after school clubs, residential visits, fundraisers etc.

Consequently 50 hours a week is possibly a low estimate for some teachers.

If that particular head could be perceived as being "so unhappy and hard done by" it might, be because there simply is a genuine problem, certainly the government thinks so and is trying to address it theguardian/educatio...o-retain-staff

In my opinion teaching has only one "tremendous perk" and that's being privileged to help develop the nation's children; who, I am happy to say, are frequently still blooming marvellous

[Posiesmum]

I’d certainly agree with your identification of the main perk. I’m retired now but taught for 30 years, mainly 16-19 sector. I really miss the students, they are funny, vulnerable, challenging and usually a joy. It’s a great feeling when you hear of or meet a student who has gone in to do something amazing with their life, the best buzz ever to have been even a bit involved in creating who they are now. But the admin is crippling. I’ve always thought the job itself is a bit like being in a 6 hour play, with very brief intervals, where you have to engage, entertain and hopefully educate 30 people all at the same time - truly performance art!

[may]

Originally Posted by Posiesmum

I’d certainly agree with your identification of the main perk. I’m retired now but taught for 30 years, mainly 16-19 sector. I really miss the students, they are funny, vulnerable, challenging and usually a joy. It’s a great feeling when you hear of or meet a student who has gone in to do something amazing with their life, the best buzz ever to have been even a bit involved in creating who they are now. But the admin is crippling. I’ve always thought the job itself is a bit like being in a 6 hour play, with very brief intervals, where you have to engage, entertain and hopefully educate 30 people all at the same time - truly performance art!

See more...

I think that's a brilliant description 🙂

[legallyblonde]

Originally Posted by may

You've just inspired me to dig out something constructed by the head at a large inner city primary I did some supply in.
He was under pressure from parents because dwindling teacher numbers meant he was having trouble filling job vacancies appropriately.
He was also frustrated because honest attempts to discuss and alter the factors leading to the dwindling numbers were viewed as " a sore subject and frustrating for people in the private sector"
So one sleepless night he worked the problem out mathematically in a very rough manner.He wasn't claiming it was correct for every situation or even precise for his. It just served to illustrate the basic issue. I hope I'm copying it out accurately

A nominal average worker 9 - 5. half an hour for lunch, 7.5 hours a day, 37.5 hours a week, 46.4 weeks = 1740 hours often with the upper limit regulated by contract.

A nominal teacher in his large inner city primary school where children were present 8.40 to 3.30
Planning 1 hour
Preparation and brief meeting before school - 45 minutes
average face to face with children allowing for removal of 15 minute break, 1 hour lunch, and 10% PPA time - 5 hours
preparation etc in childrens lunch time 30 minutes
allowing an average class size of 27- marking of 1 piece of English, 1 piece of Maths and 1 other subject, allowing 2 minutes per piece, 2 hours 42 minutes
9 hours 57 mins a day, call it 10 hours, 50 hour week , 40 weeks, 2000 hours.

Teaching contracts have no upper limit as such, they specify that a teacher must do 1265 directed hours plus whatever else is needed so you will need to add in playground duties, a longer staff meeting weekly, parental queries, performance of curriculum lead role, parents evenings , report writing , after school clubs, residential visits, fundraisers etc.

Consequently 50 hours a week is possibly a low estimate for some teachers.

If that particular head could be perceived as being "so unhappy and hard done by" it might, be because there simply is a genuine problem, certainly the government thinks so and is trying to address it theguardian/educatio...o-retain-staff

In my opinion teaching has only one "tremendous perk" and that's being privileged to help develop the nation's children; who, I am happy to say, are frequently still blooming marvellous

See more...

I don’t think you are comparing apples with apples here though in terms of the level of job. I certainly don’t work 9-5 and most people of that level won’t either. I suppose just like people have mis-conceptions about teachers (which you have righted here in this discussion), teachers also probably have mis-conceptions about other careers. Everyone always thinks the grass is greener I suppose!

Posiesmum - yes, I think that reward surely makes it all worthwhile.

[magickate]

Both of mine missed 5 days in november, the 1st week back after the 1 week half term. One school fined me, one school didn't. Our choice, no big deal.

[may]

Originally Posted by legallyblonde

I don’t think you are comparing apples with apples here though in terms of the level of job. I certainly don’t work 9-5 and most people of that level won’t either. I suppose just like people have mis-conceptions about teachers (which you have righted here in this discussion), teachers also probably have mis-conceptions about other careers. Everyone always thinks the grass is greener I suppose!

Posiesmum - yes, I think that reward surely makes it all worthwhile.

See more...

In fairness I can't really claim the comparison as mine, viable or not. I didn't create it and the person who did made it very plain that he wasn't making any claims of perfect accuracy.

I think it's self evident that people know more about the demands of their own field than they do about others. Consequently, I'm open to the idea that there may be significant amounts of other employees on pretty average wages who are expected to work potentally unlimited hours with no possibility of any additional financial advantage to their families .Just because I haven't met them it doesn't mean they aren't out there.

I think that what might be slightly different is that because everyone has watched teachers at work it might perhaps be more tempting for people to extrapolate from their limited encounters and assume that they know more than they do ?

[Jorgebear]

Responding to the op’s original post... not getting into the debate.

We are going to Florida in May, this will be two weeks out of school for all my children. Being in Scotland there is no likelyhood of any fine however the children’s absence will be likely ‘unauthorised’ however it will likely be their only absence from school. Two of my children are in primary my third is at secondary however I have no concerns taking them out of school. The emotional and wellbeing benefits to all of us and the additional collective experiential benefits far outweigh to me any missed school learning opportunities. I do not believe my children’s education will be impacted significantly by this ( and for us it absolutely is) once in a lifetime family holiday which we could not afford during a school holiday period. My children’s schooling is over 11 years, 2 weeks out is not going to impact their overall learning.

[orlandonewbie]

The problem with that comparison is that it compares one person’s basic/minimum hours with another’s real hours, including all extras. That isn’t realistic or fair.