Should we sign or not? What would you do?

[act1980]

We were due to sign our CCV contract but couldn't as there were some spelling mistakes so we're waiting for our new contract to arrive.

Whist waiting the news on the 2020 points reallocation was announced. I'm now wondering if we have had a lucky escape or not and trying to decide if we should proceed with our contract based on this information. For example, a 1 bed will now cost us an extra 21 points per week and thats in low season! This news has left a really bad taste in my mouth and I'm concerned that Disney could do something again in a couple of years meaning that we won't even be able to go for the duration that we've planned or stay in a certain type of accommodation that we would need or want.

I should add that we were due to buy 250 points so we were eligible for a decent incentive which means the per point cost was $162.40. We also want to visit WDW every year for 2 weeks each time so I’m not sure we would be able to stay on site each time with the rising hotel costs.

Not sure what to do. Help!

[eaglesrest]

We bought in primarily because the OKW/SSR dining deals for 1-bedrooms were no longer available, or at least not initially for our dates. We still wanted to stay on-site in larger rooms and DVC seemed a cost effective way to do this.

We bought at a time when the exchange rate was poor and resale prices at record highs. They had also recently changed the requirement for direct benefits from 25 points to 75 which meant more expense, but it still seemed a reasonable purchase.

Since then there have been a number of significant changes that have made me question our decision:
1. Dues have gone up over 10% at SSR
2. The rule changes over which resorts resale can use may impact resale values in the mid/long-term
3. unethical exploitative changes to point allocations and lock-off premium
4. 1-bedrooms at OKW were eventually released with free dining for our dates, which would have worked out at least as good as us paying on DVC points, assuming we would have taken the DDP

If I had the opportunity to bail now with no money lost I would take it, no question. You are looking at a £31k plus investment with a company that has unethical and untrustworthy new management, in a climate where everything Disney is costing more and more on a seemingly monthly basis. Tickets, dues, hotel costs, parking, food, drink, etc, it just goes on and on. Any dip in the economy and the DVC resale will crash, and you may even struggle to rent the points out if not using them.

Factor in a £1500 per annum commitment on dues, that will only get higher, and I agree you are right to be questioning your decision.

Only you can really decided if it is still worth it, but the landscape has probably changed considerably since you started researching a purchase, and none of it has been positive.

[MrsBrown]

I wouldn’t, not with the points reallocation, i’m sure it was sold to us that that would never happen.. too many changes, not necessarily for the best right now.

[TinkTatoo]

You've obviously done your research and decided that owning DVC will work for you and your family. There have been quite a few changes but what you need to workout is if you still want the sort of holidays that DVC can offer. No one should buy in assuming that nothing will change and you may well not be able to holiday exactly the way you planned in the future but there are ways around it such as spending the first night in a cheap cash room (a lot of people do this as you usually arrive in late evening and just crash the first night) Or go for slightly shorter one year and longer the next. Also your plans may change, when I bought in 15 years ago I envisioned needing 1 beds but now studios work for us so our points go further.

A lot of people get caught up in viewing DVC as an investment and for some who bought in 10 - 15 years ago it has been, but ultimately it's a timeshare and you're paying for luxury onsite accommodation at a fraction of the cost. I know that I'd never be able to justify paying to stay in a 1 bed at BLT every year if it wasn't for owning DVC. As far as renting points out, I can't see that market crashing any time soon, just look at how quickly points get snapped upon here plus, even if for some reason, no one from the UK ever wanted to visit WDW again, you'd still have plenty of Americans and other nationalities who would visit and want to rent points but again, you shouldn't buy with a view to renting.

$162.40 is a good price especially considering the increase due in a few days, and also considering resale contracts are currently priced at around $155. I think it's a good deal so if the reasons you wanted to buy in are still valid then you should go for it. If you don't buy now and then decided to jump on the band wagon in a few years then it will cost you a lot more.

[Queen of Herts]

We are ex DVC members. We bought 320 points in Saratoga Springs. What got to me in the end was the annual management fees which were over £1k and due each January. If I ever bought again I would buy a re-sale at the cheapest resort which I think may be OKW or Vero Beach but I’m not sure. We got out at a time when the exchange rate was right. The points cost around $26k and we were able to get just over that back again. That said we can sadly no longer afford to stay at Disney.

[Noodlez]

I'm a very recent buyer and I definitely had a panic the other day about whether I'd done the right thing, but, as was just mentioned, the reasons I bought are all still there! Point reallocations do happen, so at least you're going into this with your eyes open. Just make sure you have enough spare ones to act as a buffer.

I've actually found a thread on the other board quite reassuring. It's about the point reallocations from 10 years ago and people are saying very similar things to now! Some of the people saying that it's definitely time to sell up are still on that board today. :-)

There are questions about the points that I would like answers to, but I'm still glad I bought. I can't tell you what to do, but you need to decide how you will feel if you don't buy. In a few weeks a lot of the current upset will have died down, and the direct costs will have increased. Are you prepared to wait and pay a bit more for that peace of mind, or will you regret not buying now?

[eaglesrest]

Originally Posted by TinkTatoo

A lot of people get caught up in viewing DVC as an investment and for some who bought in 10 - 15 years ago it has been, but ultimately it's a timeshare and you're paying for luxury onsite accommodation at a fraction of the cost. I know that I'd never be able to justify paying to stay in a 1 bed at BLT every year if it wasn't for owning DVC. As far as renting points out, I can't see that market crashing any time soon, just look at how quickly points get snapped upon here plus, even if for some reason, no one from the UK ever wanted to visit WDW again, you'd still have plenty of Americans and other nationalities who would visit and want to rent points but again, you shouldn't buy with a view to renting.

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That's just it, it's not a fraction of the cost unless you compare with rack rates, which I'm sure Disney set high so DVC owners can feel comfortable about their purchase. A summer booking example:

OKW 1-bedroom, 2 weeks on free DDP, 2 adults, 2 children inc tickets £6k
OKW 1-bedroom is 444 points based on 2020 reallocation. I worked out my lifetime purchase price per point, inc compound interest etc, is around $12 per point. I bought most of my points resale at SSR average $90 per point. That's 444x $12=$5328 or about £4k. Add £1600 for tickets, and £3k for the standard DDP and that's nearly £9k! £3k more when using my DVC points and paying for tix and DDP out of pocket.

Of course, there's no need to get the DDP, which really does work out free in this example, and if lucky and staying in a low demand period/room type, you can stay in more expensive resorts, but ultimately it's actually more expensive to stay at OKW as a resale DVC member, than it is to book with free DDP.

Wrt rentals, I meant that the rental market could dip if the economy was impacted, and that is a very realistic proposition. As it stands, if anything I expect rental demand to increase at least in the short-term, and per point $ rates are IMO too low at places like David's.

When stalwarts like TM and YT are questioning ownership, I take very serious notice, but hopefully the new management have made their impression and things will settle down.

[amy56]

Unless you’ve bought more than enough points so that you can be flexible with seasons/room types, then no I wouldn’t buy in now.

If no one disputes these point chart changes (there is talk elsewhere of possible legal action or a bad press campaign), and DVD feel they’ve got away with it, then I fully expect there to be more increases next year.

Thankfully I didn’t buy in with an exact room type/date of travel in mind, so other than it upsetting specific plans I had for next year, generally my points useage varies so wildly that I doubt I would of noticed the changes too much.

The people it is really going to hurt are those who bought for a specific period of time in a studio, and now they can’t afford their studio, let alone upsizing to a one bed.

Sadly since the arrival of the newer resorts, where there are only the choice of studios or large luxury accommodation (think the poly bungalows or CC cabins), then I suspect most people have bought in to have studio stays and couldn’t remotely afford to book the top end accommodation with their small ownerships - that leaves far too many people competing for the studios (and now for fewer nights thanks to the increased points charts) and the ‘luxury’ rooms left empty (or used for cash stays by Disney) ☹️

[Noodlez]

Originally Posted by eaglesrest

That's just it, it's not a fraction of the cost unless you compare with rack rates, which I'm sure Disney set high so DVC owners can feel comfortable about their purchase. A summer booking example:

OKW 1-bedroom, 2 weeks on free DDP, 2 adults, 2 children inc tickets £6k
OKW 1-bedroom is 444 points based on 2020 reallocation. I worked out my lifetime purchase price per point, inc compound interest etc, is around $12 per point. I bought most of my points resale at SSR average $90 per point. That's 444x $12=$5328 or about £4k. Add £1600 for tickets, and £3k for the standard DDP and that's nearly £9k! £3k more when using my DVC points and paying for tix and DDP out of pocket.

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Could I ask what time of year you're basing your maths on? 444 points at OKW means you're looking at magic season. Looking at a 2 week booking in June for 2 adults and 2 children would be over £8000 in 2019, and maybe a lot more than that in 2020.
Adding tickets to a DVC stay would be £1460 and adding the dining plan would be £2072. This would then make the DVC option cheaper.

[TinkTatoo]

Originally Posted by eaglesrest

That's just it, it's not a fraction of the cost unless you compare with rack rates, which I'm sure Disney set high so DVC owners can feel comfortable about their purchase. A summer booking example:

OKW 1-bedroom, 2 weeks on free DDP, 2 adults, 2 children inc tickets £6k
OKW 1-bedroom is 444 points based on 2020 reallocation. I worked out my lifetime purchase price per point, inc compound interest etc, is around $12 per point. I bought most of my points resale at SSR average $90 per point. That's 444x $12=$5328 or about £4k. Add £1600 for tickets, and £3k for the standard DDP and that's nearly £9k! £3k more when using my DVC points and paying for tix and DDP out of pocket.

Of course, there's no need to get the DDP, which really does work out free in this example, and if lucky and staying in a low demand period/room type, you can stay in more expensive resorts, but ultimately it's actually more expensive to stay at OKW as a resale DVC member, than it is to book with free DDP.

Wrt rentals, I meant that the rental market could dip if the economy was impacted, and that is a very realistic proposition. As it stands, if anything I expect rental demand to increase at least in the short-term, and per point $ rates are IMO too low at places like David's.

When stalwarts like TM and YT are questioning ownership, I take very serious notice, but hopefully the new management have made their impression and things will settle down.

See more...

I do feel your figures are somewhat flawed and that’s where we look at DVC differently. I bought my points years ago so they’ve long been paid for and the money written off so when I do my calculations all I’m taking into account is my annual dues and there is no way I’d be able to vacation the way I do at those prices.

Also you’ve picked OKW as an example and included buying the DDP which most of us on a DVC vacation don’t do but that’s a resort that Disney are offering at a discount. If you take any of the monorail or Epcot resorts into the equation then the figures would be dramatically different.

I bought OKW resale back in 2004 and recently sold my contracts for a profit which means that esentally I’ve had 15 years worth of free trips.

A lot of people are questioning ownership because they’re relatively new to DVC or are trying to view it as a business. At the end of the day it’s a timeshare where you pay a lump sum up front and annual dues thereafter. We all went into it knowing this and as long as that’s what the OP does and is happy with that then she should go ahead with her purchase and hopefully enjoy many happy Disney holidays staying in some fabulous resorts.