Flybe possible Administration

[TIMCSS]

Originally Posted by itsmeGAV

Hold up.. so the government are prepared to bailout Flybe.. but not TC. 🤦🏻

No wonder why IAG have put in a formal complaint for misuse of tax payer funds.

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They haven't bailed Flybe out, they have just moved their payment date for Tax along for a few months. That's it.

I'm conscious that a lot of people in this forum were effected by the TC shutdown, but these 2 situations are very different. It didn't really matter how much money was pumped into TC, they were so far in the red and couldn't demonstrate a way out. Bad management over decades im afraid.

IF Flybe fell, it is not just flights and jobs that are lost, its businesses and regional connectivity and airports. Its people in the channel islands being unable to make it to Southampton hospital for emergency appointments. I could go on as the list is endless, but the connectivity options in the UK are shocking. It takes me 40 minutes to fly to Glasgow from Birmingham to do business with our clients, that isn't possible via train and its also cheaper and i know im getting a seat.

TC was a holiday company, and that sounds harsh and it is but its the truth. Saving a company so far in the red so people can go on holiday didnt make sense. I have friends who worked for TC and its been horrible. Most have found work but some havent.

Its also worth pointing out the prop planes that Flybe use are the most efficent types of aircraft available, so this enviromental argument isnt correct.

[bighal]

Lets see if FlyBE is around still after March which is when grandfathering rights kick in happen for their LHR slots.. I would not be surprised if they end up in Virgins hands and Flybe goes under.

[ShamuLvr]

Originally Posted by mazzie

Reading some pretty awful comments on here about Flybe staff.

My husband worked for Flybe for 11 years and was TUPE to Monarch aircraft engineering. We got the news about Monarch whilst on honeymoon. He was then TUPE back to Flybe overnight just before Christmas in cloak and dagger form, not knowing whether he would have a job or not.

He now works for BA but in Heathrow and we live in Shropshire. Its not ideal but there is little work in this area.

Some of Flybe's employees have been pushed from pillar to post going to Monarch then to Thomas Cook and then back to Flybe.

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I worked at MAEL when the engineers were transferred back to Flybe in 2018, that's when we knew the writing was on the wall for engineering, awful time for every one.

Glad it's sorted for Flybe, let's hope they use it as a positive thing to take the company forward

[mazzie]

Originally Posted by ShamuLvr

I worked at MAEL when the engineers were transferred back to Flybe in 2018, that's when we knew the writing was on the wall for engineering, awful time for every one.

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We’re you based at BHX?

[Jon&Emz]

Originally Posted by bighal

Lets see if FlyBE is around still after March which is when grandfathering rights kick in happen for their LHR slots.. I would not be surprised if they end up in Virgins hands and Flybe goes under.

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Virgin already own them as part of the consortium that purchased them last year, in fact they were the ones the government was waiting to put more money in to them to keep them out of administration.

Also Flybe was rumoured to be rebranding in Feb / March to Virgin connect to bring it inline with the new ownership and its role in providing regional connectivity to virgins hub airports.

flightglobal/strateg...134824.article

[bighal]

Originally Posted by Jon&Emz

Virgin already own them as part of the consortium that purchased them last year, in fact they were the ones the government was waiting to put more money in to them to keep them out of administration.

Also Flybe was rumoured to be rebranding in Feb / March to Virgin connect to bring it inline with the new ownership and its role in providing regional connectivity to virgins hub airports.

flightglobal/strateg...134824.article

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Virgin don't...FlyBE does. If Flybe goes to the wall before March then they will revert back to BA so any other airline can then apply to use them for the specific routes for at least 6 IATA seasons before they become the property of that airline.

[itsmeGAV]

Originally Posted by TIMCSS

They haven't bailed Flybe out, they have just moved their payment date for Tax along for a few months. That's it.

I'm conscious that a lot of people in this forum were effected by the TC shutdown, but these 2 situations are very different. It didn't really matter how much money was pumped into TC, they were so far in the red and couldn't demonstrate a way out. Bad management over decades im afraid.

IF Flybe fell, it is not just flights and jobs that are lost, its businesses and regional connectivity and airports. Its people in the channel islands being unable to make it to Southampton hospital for emergency appointments. I could go on as the list is endless, but the connectivity options in the UK are shocking. It takes me 40 minutes to fly to Glasgow from Birmingham to do business with our clients, that isn't possible via train and its also cheaper and i know im getting a seat.

TC was a holiday company, and that sounds harsh and it is but its the truth. Saving a company so far in the red so people can go on holiday didnt make sense. I have friends who worked for TC and its been horrible. Most have found work but some havent.

Its also worth pointing out the prop planes that Flybe use are the most efficent types of aircraft available, so this enviromental argument isnt correct.

See more...

I mean... they've deferred their tax payments for a few months. That doesn't come without a penalty to the government if I'm not mistaken? I'm sure the government are covering this in terms of a loan, which ultimately is paid by the tax payer.

You mention bad management over decades for TC, which is correct. However this issue with Flybe.. isn't it also due to poor management somewhere down the line?

You do realise.. that if Flybe fails, another airline will take those slots almost instantly. Meaning the potential loss of regional connectivity won't happen.

I also never made any mention towards Flybe environmental impact, so no idea what you're talking about.

[braby]

Originally Posted by itsmeGAV

You do realise.. that if Flybe fails, another airline will take those slots almost instantly. Meaning the potential loss of regional connectivity won't happen.

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What airline is going to take on Flybe routes? Can’t see the likes of EasyJet, Ryanair, Virgin or BA wanting to Fly between Channel Islands and Southampton or between mainland Scotland Sumburgh airport.
Contrary to popular belief there is more to the whole situation than just LHR slots.

Virgin and Stobart are arguing about how to take the airline forward and as a result not putting the money in that was promised. Virgin want to build connectivity into LHR, LGW and MAN. Whereas Stobart want to build on the regional bases like Southend and BHX.

[Tillyfloss]

Originally Posted by itsmeGAV

I
You do realise.. that if Flybe fails, another airline will take those slots almost instantly. Meaning the potential loss of regional connectivity won't happen.
.

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Genuine question. Which airline do you think would take over the slots?
Like it or loathe it the Dash is ideal for the regional routes flown by flybe. The embraer jets can also accommodate both short and longer routes to the regions and into Europe.

[cornishfrogboy]

I may be missing something obvious here...

Aircraft lease or ownership costs money as they depreciate until reduced to spares.
Staff wages, fuel, slots, engineering maintenance etc costs money.

People buy tickets and sit in the planes on various routes and the money they pay is meant to cover all of the above. If the tickets are priced too high, then occupancy targets and revenue targets are not met and therefore the operator sustains a loss. The key must be to pitch the price at a level where people fill the plane and the revenue covers the outgoings.

I appreciate that this is in simple terms and that there are many other complications such as APD, fluctuating oil prices etc, but the business model is accurate.

What happens if there are simply not enough potential passengers or demand to achieve break even, regardless of any other factors? Then the Operator cannot succeed.

I cite the Newquay run (subsidised by the government) to London. An average Cornish passenger has to get from, say Truro. He must get to the airport, park, do check in and security, board, fly, taxy, disembark and then either get into London or catch your link to elsewhere. I can get there by train quicker than that, cheaper than that if booked in advance and if I wanted London Paddington itself, considerably quicker.

I do not believe, contrary to the assertions of the wildly optimistic Cornwall Council that we have an endless stream of businessmen and entrepreneurs queueing up to use the route and invest millions, any more that their investment in the spaceport at Newquay will get a satellite in space. In fact spaceflight is marginally more likely than profitable operation of the route.. and then we have the question of whether Newquay Airport should even exist as a viable destination (it is subsidised by Cornwall Council).

My point is this. It is no coincidence that regional flights and profitability are on the breadline. If nobody can operate a route at break even, then they should cease to exist. Perhaps money should be invested in railways in many cases (and I appreciate that you cannot build a railway to the Channel Islands) I haven’t even bought up environmental issues. Perhaps another feature that would help would be to remove the need for people to travel for business purposes by culture change, technology and virtual, desktop conference.

I fly out of Heathrow in March to California. I will be driving, despite living not very far from Newquay International. I flew out of Gatwick in the summer and caught the train.