Gone through a red light...

[Forkbeard]

Originally Posted by tspill

You absolutely can get ticketed for not stopping. I know several people who have had tickets for exactly this. The guidance is to be stationary for 3 seconds.

See more...

The article didn't say you couldn't, but I'm guessing you didn't read it. It was interesting and more or less explains why there is confusion.

[Guest]

pasadenastarnews/gene...prove-anything

[Forkbeard]

Originally Posted by Ilivehereorland

pasadenastarnews/gene...prove-anything

See more...

Not really. Several things happen:

- People are ignorant and/or lazy. They either don't understand the data, or don't bother reading it properly.

- People are devious and/or incompetent. The people who present it deliberately mislead or hide information, or are so incompetent they get it wrong or get the findings wrong.

- The information is impossible to deduce from the data.

It's really not that hard, so long as you go at it logically and rationally, which is something most people just can't or won't do.

[Guest]

Originally Posted by Forkbeard

Not really. Several things happen:

- People are ignorant and/or lazy. They either don't understand the data, or don't bother reading it properly.

- People are devious and/or incompetent. The people who present it deliberately mislead or hide information, or are so incompetent they get it wrong or get the findings wrong.

- The information is impossible to deduce from the data.

It's really not that hard, so long as you go at it logically and rationally, which is something most people just can't or won't do.

See more...

Reading this whole thread, it seems that the thing the "most people just can't or won't do" is stop at a red light.

[Forkbeard]

Originally Posted by Ilivehereorland

Reading this whole thread, it seems that the thing the "most people just can't or won't do" is stop at a red light.

See more...

That last part of your posted article was funny:

More intriguing is the chart that illustrates that the number of people who drowned by falling into a swimming pool correlates with the number of films in which Nicolas Cage has appeared.

See more...

I think that was suicide having suffered a Nic Cage film

Seriously though, I will always look before turning for pedestrians and cars. I just don't see any gains in making people actually stop, rather than be careful. A car could just as easily stop, not look, accelerate and knock over a pedestrian. The stopping element really isn't going to save people imo. Although as I said stats may prove otherwise

Now four-way stops, that's a bit different. Clearly a bunch of rolling vehicles is a problem. Unless it's clear you should completely stop and wait your turn. I've always been impressed with how well that works and I doubt the UK drivers would honour it, since they can't even honour a mini-roundabout

[PPM]

Originally Posted by Ilivehereorland

Reading this whole thread, it seems that the thing the "most people just can't or won't do" is stop at a red light.

See more...

Well we know of one anyway

I'm not one of those people... I stop at red before proceeding right, I have seen a police officer in Florida pull someone for not stopping, (assumed as the car was pulled after the red light and after the police had followed it thro ). I'm old enough to know how a Zebra Crossing works ( or doesn't ) and I'm definetly not ignorant (Well i fink im nut, Doh) .
I prefer real life experiences to statistics too, but each to their own of course.

[Forkbeard]

Originally Posted by PPM

Well we know of one anyway

I'm not one of those people... I stop at red before proceeding right, I have seen a police officer in Florida pull someone for not stopping, (assumed as the car was pulled after the red light and after the police had followed it thro ). I'm old enough to know how a Zebra Crossing works ( or doesn't ) and I'm definetly not ignorant (Well i fink im nut, Doh) .
I prefer real life experiences to statistics too, but each to their own of course.

See more...

Guilty as charged

I don't doubt they do ticket people for it, but that doesn't mean the law demands it. When I worked for the police, officers would get things wrong and be told off (sort of) by the custody sergeants. The police are largely ignorant of the law. It's not surprising when you consider how complex it is, and how open it is to interpretation.

I'm not saying I won't stop. If cameras are going up I might be forced to. If cops are present likewise.

My point about zebra crossings is that you can easily argue in favour of a law to force people to come to a complete stop before proceeding over a crossing, regardless of whether pedestrians are present or not. That would be very similar to an argument of stopping for a right turn red in the US for the safety of pedestrians regardless of their presence at the crossing.

We don't do it because it would inconvenience the flow of traffic too much. Risk vs. utility again. I'm sure it would be easy to find evidence of deaths that could be prevented if you are forced to stop at every zebra crossing.

[fl-veteran]

Originally Posted by Forkbeard

It's not common sense at all. Cars can be dangerous. We have to reduce risk whilst granting utility.

The US permits turning on red (sometimes), the UK doesn't. If there was a common sense, we'd both permit it or both not. Plenty of laws in many countries that differ. Not because there is common sense, but because there isn't.

Why don't we force cars to stop on a Zebra crossing? People can be killed on those easily, and at 2mph to quote the other poster.

All you are doing, as most people do, is justify whatever law you think is in place. If they changed it, you'd justify that change. People love to justify speed limits, but when they change you don't see them arguing against the change. Why is that? Because people believe in argument by authority, and it's nonsense unless backed up with good statistical evidence.

See more...

No, I'm not arguing any point, I'm pointing out a fact. A stationary car can't run anyone over.

I don't need statistical evidence because... physics...

[Guest]

Seriously though, I will always look before turning for pedestrians and cars. I just don't see any gains in making people actually stop, rather than be careful. A car could just as easily stop, not look, accelerate and knock over a pedestrian. The stopping element really isn't going to save people imo. Although as I said stats may prove otherwise

See more...

Oh do Lets all go to a foreign country and only follow the rules when we have them in England, or when we see any gains. Sheer arrogance.

[archibald]

Originally Posted by PPM

I prefer real life experiences to statistics too, but each to their own of course.

See more...

Fab, in that case, car travel is completely safe as I have not killed myself nor anyone else while driving.

I'm starting to see a flaw in your thinking ...