Moral Torpitude

[oateyboy]

Afternoon all

We have a trip booked for March next year and I was due to apply for ESTAs this week.

Unfortunately my 17 year old son got arrested yesterday for assault. He has not been charged yet as police are still investigating and collecting evidence.

Any advice would be most appreciated. For the record, I do not condone what he has done and am not totally aware of all the circumstances. Please can we not make this about his behaviour but about the practical steps I may need to take.

Thanks all

[Rozzyb2011]

Hi the moral turpitude question is no longer asked but Q2 reads:

Have you ever been arrested or convicted for a crime that resulted in serious damage to property, or serious harm to another person or government authority?

This question exists to prevent people from entering the country who are likely to commit a crime during their visit.

However, the question leaves some room for interpretation due to its use of the word ‘serious’. Consequently, if you’ve been convicted of a misdemeanour that didn’t result in serious damage or harm, you could answer ‘no’ to this question so it depends on the circumstances of your sons arrest.

However, ESTA officials can check police records from European countries and if they consider your crime to be serious enough, and for you to have lied in your application, you will be denied entry and likely denied in the future as well.*

*as per the esta site but not sure if this is true.

[daytonababe]

Originally Posted by Rozzyb2011

Hi the moral turpitude question is no longer asked but Q2 reads:

Have you ever been arrested or convicted for a crime that resulted in serious damage to property, or serious harm to another person or government authority?

This question exists to prevent people from entering the country who are likely to commit a crime during their visit.

However, the question leaves some room for interpretation due to its use of the word ‘serious’. Consequently, if you’ve been convicted of a misdemeanour that didn’t result in serious damage or harm, you could answer ‘no’ to this question so it depends on the circumstances of your sons arrest.

However, ESTA officials can check police records from European countries and if they consider your crime to be serious enough, and for you to have lied in your application, you will be denied entry and likely denied in the future as well.*

*as per the esta site but not sure if this is true.

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The USA can only request to see someone’s criminal record if they have a good reason too .. they don’t automatically have access to everyone’s criminal record .

[Stitchesmumanddad]

Originally Posted by daytonababe

The USA can only request to see someone’s criminal record if they have a good reason too .. they don’t automatically have access to everyone’s criminal record .

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This is very true. Just answer no and enjoy your holiday x

[7SeasSailor]

Every court case in this country is a matter of public record but I very much doubt that the USA has got any legal access to the PNC.

[Rozzyb2011]

UK immigration officials do have access to overseas criminal conviction records but we do need a valid reason to request them, if a conviction is not declared there are certain indictators that would cause applications to require further enrichment prior to being passed. I have no idea what the process is for USA Immigration officials but would assume as we have a process to request criminal conviction data from our USA counterparts for their citizens applying for UK visas, one would assume we would reciprocate but I honestly don't know for sure.

[Mickie]

Originally Posted by 7SeasSailor

Every court case in this country is a matter of public record but I very much doubt that the USA has got any legal access to the PNC.

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Not the PNC but they have access to records. So as my lawyer say answer the question that has been asked.

The relevant question has been quoted, yes he has been arrested, and the way the question is asked it seems irrelevant whether or not he has been charged.

Whether you think it is for something serious within the meaning of the question is I think something for you and your son to figure out. I can’t see that there is any guidance so there may be a grey area.

[Welshjim22]

They don't have free access to PNC. They could request more info if they had reason to. But Esta is an automated system in the most part.

Of course certain serious crime is uploaded to interpol as described and they would be alerted.

I would think you can honestly apply for an Esta currently. In fact due to the timing I would say if its serious enough for the US to be worried he probably wouldn't be allowed to travel abroad by March.

[steph206]

As it stands he hasn't been charged, therefore apply for the ESTA. After all you will be answering honestly.

Serious assault in my interpretation is hospitalised etc. My opinion doesn't matter of course.

I have only ever heard.of ESTA and CBP checking police national computer for crimes of a particular category, certainly not what your son has alledgedly committed.

Try relax a little, there's a reason they used the word serious. Answer the question in its current form, and you can't be penalised. If convicted then cross that bridge when it's officially on paper. Of course I hope that doesn't happen.

Best of luck.

[7SeasSailor]

Your son got arrested for assault, not abh or gbh. I would go with the esta.