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Old 17 Jun 24, 08:35 AM  
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#41
marypoppins38
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Originally Posted by katiec68 View Post
Assumption!



What I actually said was no-one knows what discussions were had!



Maybe she could put her name down to be a middle man at 2am then?
Your reaction proves my point in my previous post. It’s uncalled for and quite confrontational.
Your first point is a fact rather than assumption.
Your last point, my daughter is a small animal vet in a mixed practice. It would be the farm vet at the practice that would be the ‘middle man at 2am’.
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Old 17 Jun 24, 08:52 AM  
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fl-veteran
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Originally Posted by Dave+Hel View Post
Standard when a complaint is made in circumstances like this.
Would it be standard to suspend an officer if someone senior in the control room had ordered them to do this? Seems a bit odd, I would have thought, under those circumstances, it would be the person giving the order who would be removed from duty...

Unless there was no such order given from the control room, in which case automatic removal from duty would make more sense.

We can only guess, but most likely this was a split second decision by an officer in the midst of a tricky situation that had been ongoing for a while. A bad decision, with a hard to watch outcome, but then that's how split second decisions can go - hopefully the officer will learn from it and, providing he doesn't have a history with bad decision making, move on with his record intact.

And who knows what could have happened had he not acted. There could have been a traffic accident, someone could have been badly hurt or killed.

Luckily the calf seems to be doing OK and all is well that ends well.
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Old 17 Jun 24, 09:44 AM  
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The video looks terrible.

Growing up with cattle, having to heard them from fields to farms and also being rammed by a mother into a wall at 13 I can understand that people would be scared.

What I’d like to know is what happened before the car hit the cow. What did they try and for how long?

Looking at how it was flung across the road and then pinned down underneath the car from the second hit it wouldn’t be unlikely that it’s got internal injuries and that it might die anyway.

I would have hoped that the police did call the local farmers or rscpa for help but other have said not. I also would have hoped that this was the last resort and that maybe they had tried offering it food etc.

From the video it didn’t look like it was doing damage to cars or people.

Bad situation.
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Old 17 Jun 24, 10:14 AM  
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#44
katiec68
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Originally Posted by fl-veteran View Post
Would it be standard to suspend an officer if someone senior in the control room had ordered them to do this? Seems a bit odd, I would have thought, under those circumstances, it would be the person giving the order who would be removed from duty...

Unless there was no such order given from the control room, in which case automatic removal from duty would make more sense.

We can only guess, but most likely this was a split second decision by an officer in the midst of a tricky situation that had been ongoing for a while. A bad decision, with a hard to watch outcome, but then that's how split second decisions can go - hopefully the officer will learn from it and, providing he doesn't have a history with bad decision making, move on with his record intact.

And who knows what could have happened had he not acted. There could have been a traffic accident, someone could have been badly hurt or killed.

Luckily the calf seems to be doing OK and all is well that ends well.
I've never known anyone in senior management be suspended over any advice or order given.

Years ago several PCs/DCS were suspended for apparently fiddling "crime clear up rates".

That decision would always have been made higher up the chain... as reporting bad figures looks really bad when you are in front of the most senior bods.

As we say the ≈≈≈≈ never rolls uphill!
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Old 17 Jun 24, 10:18 AM  
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Originally Posted by katiec68 View Post
I've never known anyone in senior management be suspended over any advice or order given.

Years ago several PCs/DCS were suspended for apparently fiddling "crime clear up rates".

That decision would always have been made higher up the chain... as reporting bad figures looks really bad when you are in front of the most senior bods.

As we say the ≈≈≈≈ never rolls uphill!
Maybe not, but "The order was given to me over the radio, of which there is a recording, and I followed my orders - how else would you have liked me to act? Please also explain that to my union colleague." is a pretty solid defence.

At least it is if true.
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Old 17 Jun 24, 11:03 AM  
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Originally Posted by fl-veteran View Post
Maybe not, but "The order was given to me over the radio, of which there is a recording, and I followed my orders - how else would you have liked me to act? Please also explain that to my union colleague." is a pretty solid defence.

At least it is if true.
Oh I totally agree in this case that may well prove to be the case.

I'm not saying for 1 minute whether I agree or not with what happened - I have had enough hindsight brigade stuff of my own over the years to comment on the rights or wrongs!

But in some cases it's never clear cut. Some "orders" are never written, some are long standing "unwritten rules" until what usually happens is that someone chasing promotion throws the baby out with the bathwater!

I've never heard a senior officer who has put forward force wide change in a promotion pitch, causing untold mayhem & stress to the worker bees ever been taken to task for the complete chaos they leave in their wake - in 22 years we've had 4 restructuring & reinventing the wheel processes... oh wait... said senior officers are now on a beach somewhere!
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Old 17 Jun 24, 02:28 PM  
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It's a little known fact that cows are the UK's deadliest large animal, attacking thousands of people every year, usually in herds. Trample/gore deaths exceed shark bite deaths.

That said, my dh had his fair share of escaped cows/bulls in his time as a police officer working rural areas and also a couple of trample deaths but he never felt the need to ram one with his police vehicle. The same sentiment is amongst the retired police officers on my fb group, all of whom are scratching their heads and saying the order must have come from above.

No officer would want the paperwork to explain the damage to the police car for a start.
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Old 17 Jun 24, 02:56 PM  
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I haven’t, and am not going to, watch the video - reading about it is bad enough 🥲
I can’t imagine any need for this to have happened. The poor thing must have been frightened enough as it was even before being intentionally mowed down.
I know none of us know the circumstances that led to this officers actions and I’m guessing we never will.
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Old 17 Jun 24, 03:50 PM  
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Originally Posted by Lisa123wm View Post
I haven’t, and am not going to, watch the video - reading about it is bad enough 🥲
I can’t imagine any need for this to have happened. The poor thing must have been frightened enough as it was even before being intentionally mowed down.
I know none of us know the circumstances that led to this officers actions and I’m guessing we never will.
So which is it?
Can't imagine the need for this
Or
None of us know the circumstances leading to the officers actions?

It can't be both.
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Old 17 Jun 24, 03:52 PM  
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bbc/news/articles/cg33v21weg3o

Farmer says the police actions were "probably right".
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