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Old 1 Nov 21, 04:38 PM  
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YorkshireT
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The consequences of not having a vaccine

Latest ONS figures, the chart says it all. Per 100,000 people:

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Old 1 Nov 21, 04:50 PM  
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fl-veteran
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Originally Posted by YorkshireT View Post
Latest ONS figures, the chart says it all. Per 100,000 people:

[sarcasm] But surely they are dying with COVID, not of COVID... [/sarcasm]

The US now publish hospital admissions and deaths by vaccine status, they make very similar reading.
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Old 1 Nov 21, 05:18 PM  
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Andy C
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Originally Posted by fl-veteran View Post
[sarcasm] But surely they are dying with COVID, not of COVID... [/sarcasm]

The US now publish hospital admissions and deaths by vaccine status, they make very similar reading.
Interestingly, the vaccinated have a lower death rate from all causes.

Which could imply actual covid deaths that aren't picked up as covid deaths (sort of the opposite of what the denialists were claiming). Or it could be a boosted immune system being more apt than others. Or that recovering from covid when non-immune leaves one open to other infections and causes of death (the "natural" way)
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Old 1 Nov 21, 06:00 PM  
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MarkUK
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One of the many reasons why we have to have an acceptable tolerance of deaths. The unvaccinated (medical exemptions excluded) have to take responsibility for their own health and well-being.
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Old 1 Nov 21, 06:08 PM  
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sam7
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The way we 'count' our covid deaths has always been controversial. If a person dies of a heart attack within 28 days of having a positive covid test they are classed as a covid death. If they die of long covid - more than 28 days after a positive test are they still being classed as covid deaths?
Is our death count so high on Worldometer compared to other nations because they count differently?
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Old 1 Nov 21, 06:24 PM  
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123
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Originally Posted by Andy C View Post
Interestingly, the vaccinated have a lower death rate from all causes.

Which could imply actual covid deaths that aren't picked up as covid deaths (sort of the opposite of what the denialists were claiming). Or it could be a boosted immune system being more apt than others. Or that recovering from covid when non-immune leaves one open to other infections and causes of death (the "natural" way)
It may just imply that those with the common sense to take the vaccine generally better health decisions
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Old 1 Nov 21, 06:30 PM  
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fl-veteran
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Originally Posted by sam7 View Post
The way we 'count' our covid deaths has always been controversial. If a person dies of a heart attack within 28 days of having a positive covid test they are classed as a covid death. If they die of long covid - more than 28 days after a positive test are they still being classed as covid deaths?
Is our death count so high on Worldometer compared to other nations because they count differently?
From PHE website:

PHE uses two definitions of death in a person with COVID-19 in England, one broader measure and one measure reflecting current trends:

1) A death in a person with a laboratory-confirmed positive COVID-19 and either: died within 60 days of the first specimen date or died more than 60 days after the first specimen date, only if COVID-19 is mentioned on the death certificate

2) A death in a person with a laboratory-confirmed positive COVID-19 test and died within (equal to or less than) 28 days of the first positive specimen date.


I would also point out that if a person dies from COVID without having been tested then they wouldn't appear in the COVID statistics.

Chances are we do look a bit worse in the 'worldometer', because we count better than most other countries are either able to or choose to. I don't think doing it better is controversial unless you take those figures at face value (which, as I'm trying to demonstrate, you can't).

Of course my brother's auntie's cousin has a friend who works with someone who's grandma's sister's nephew got hit by a car and they wrote COVID on the death certificate...

edit (I love a bit of revisionism!):

Some would argue that this is the reason why we changed our counting, so we didn't look worse than almost everyone else. However, I believe we did it so we could use a more up-to-date statistic to make week-to-week comparisons.
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Old 1 Nov 21, 07:33 PM  
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Originally Posted by sam7 View Post
The way we 'count' our covid deaths has always been controversial. If a person dies of a heart attack within 28 days of having a positive covid test they are classed as a covid death. If they die of long covid - more than 28 days after a positive test are they still being classed as covid deaths?
Is our death count so high on Worldometer compared to other nations because they count differently?
If using the ONS stats., do they not fix this?
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Old 1 Nov 21, 07:44 PM  
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It's going to take a long long time for covid to burn through the unvaccinated. I accept some people can't get vaccinated and I have sympathy for those folk. And of course my sympathy also goes out to those unfortunate people who have had their vaccines and still succumb to Covid.

The rest I've no sympathy for whatsoever. It was on the radio the other day that over 100k NHS workers haven't had a jab. Theres going to be a lot of unvaccinated people dying of Covid for a long time yet.

I know of an anti vaxxer currently on a ventilator. It's unfortunate but I have zero sympathy for him. I do feel for his wife who was sensible enough and did the right thing and got vaccinated and his poor kids who could lose their Daddy.

It's an awful situation but some people have thrown themselves onto the fire.
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Old 1 Nov 21, 07:47 PM  
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Originally Posted by 123 View Post
It may just imply that those with the common sense to take the vaccine generally better health decisions
Id agree with this, I think that also vaccine uptake correlates with socio-economic groups that have better health outcomes generally.
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