Is booking with VA high risk?

[cornishfrogboy]

I cannot remember the name of the poster, but there was a DIBBER that worked with airlines and discussed the issues of the various airlines in some detail ( before getting roundly criticised as some did not like the honesty in her opinion).

I would guess that when looking at any business, then I would consider recent financial performance, assets, future prospects and maybe, brand loyalty.

Virgin Atl are 49% owned by Delta, who have made it extremely clear that they.cannot financially assist. This may have something to do with their ‘bail out’ from the US government. The other 51% is owned by Virgin Holdings (of which Mr Branson owns 12% and thus a smidgeon over 6% of the actual airline). It is notable that in their August recapitalisation, it was Mr Branson that seemingly dug into his own, personal pockets to assist and equally notable that the U.K. government would have nothing to do with it, saying that their plans were not realistic.

Profit/Loss in recent years.

This really does not look great and would hardly be likely to attract investors on good terms.

Assets.

Slots
I believe it true that Virgin have hocked their Heathrow slots for a previous loan and in addition have leased out Gatwick slots.

Aircraft.
The ch-aviation fleets ownership module shows Virgin leases the majority of its aircraft: all four A330-200s (including two operated by Virgin Atlantic International, all nine A330-300s (including two at Virgin Atlantic International), all five A350-1000s, and four out of seventeen B787-9s. The carrier said that its current operating leases expire between March 2021 and January 2034, and its aggregate future liabilities exceed USD1.25 billion.
Not much there then, as the majority are leased and I believe that some of their previously incoming A350’s have since been sold and then leased back.. And we do not know how much they owe on the ‘owned’ aircraft in the fleet either.

The Future?
Not looking too rosy in the coming months.

Brand loyalty.
They will have put off many with their flagrant breaking of the laws relating to refunds (including me). They clearly still enjoy the loyalty of many others.

Conclusion.
Don’t get me wrong. The collapse of Virgin Atl would be an utter and total disaster. Norwegian and their withdrawal from Transatlantic routes has already had a clear impact on prices ( I really liked the Norwegian product).

Thousands of good people will lose jobs and not just those directly employed by the company. That is clearly not a good thing.

Prices will rise on transatlantic routes with the loss of a competitor.. just look what Virgin Atl themselves did on the MAN-MCO route with the demise of Thomas Cook. That is bad news for all of us.

Would I buy a flight ticket?
No, but mainly because my vacations have a couple of dozen related purchases, most date related and in the event of a failure, yes I use a credit card and yes, I would get my money back. The problem would come with the increased prices to purchase replacement flights in the event that the competition of Virgin Atl no longer exists on the route. It is likely I would lose plenty of money due those rises when purchasing new tickets with my Virgin refund money.
It would clearly make more sense to book with one of their generally cheaper and certainly more solvent rivals in the first place, BA, AA, Delta, United and co. This is easy for me as I invariably fly from London and am very open minded as to where in the United States I fly to. From LHR, my possibilities are practically endless as I book my flights before I plan where I am going within my vacation.
I have stepped into or out of airports in Tampa, Miami, Sanford, Orlando, Pensacola, Daytona Beach, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Boston, New York, Washington.
I have booked (and had to Covid cancel) on Vancouver, Tacoma, San Luis Obispo, Burbank, Tucson, Phoenix, Las Vegas.
Next Easter it is Toronto, Buffalo, Orlando and Miami (With American Airlines).
Virgins survival or demise may not affect me as much as some others, but would still be a very bad day for thousands.

Fingers crossed for them!

[Leia77]

Thanks all. As we fly from Glasgow, there are only two direct routes, with VA or TUI. My nervousness around VA is if we book with them and they do go bust, then we’re priced out of TUI flights - similar to what happened when Thomas Cook went (we were luckily booked with VA already).

These replies have reassured me, so thank you. If the price is ok, and that’s a big “if” I’d go ahead and book (with CC, of course )

[Mazbar]

Book a fly drive with virgin holiday and just don’t pick up the car, sometimes it can be cheaper than just booking the flights, if they do go under then the government will have to pick up the tab under atol, abta this is what they deserve after the way they seem to go out of their way to wreck the international travel industry

[captain-codeye]

I have a friend who is a captain with virgin, his schedule is as busy as before but flying freight, they double crew the planes to some destinations so they don’t have to leave the aircraft so they are very busy.

However having work for the pilots (plus they have to take 1 cabin crew on fire watch) and planes is just a sticking plaster and will not help the other staff and when furlough ends if there not flying, it’s going to be a huge financial struggle, I can’t help fear for the other staff.

[Leia77]

Originally Posted by Mazbar

Book a fly drive with virgin holiday and just don’t pick up the car, sometimes it can be cheaper than just booking the flights, if they do go under then the government will have to pick up the tab under atol, abta this is what they deserve after the way they seem to go out of their way to wreck the international travel industry

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Thanks . I’ve been looking at their fly drive prices for next July but they are eye watering - £6.5k for four of us in economy They might come down once the standard flights are released, otherwise not sure who would pay that? Will keep an eye on them, though.

[Mazbar]

Originally Posted by Leia77

Thanks . I’ve been looking at their fly drive prices for next July but they are eye watering - £6.5k for four of us in economy They might come down once the standard flights are released, otherwise not sure who would pay that? Will keep an eye on them, though.

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We are paying 8k for 3 in upper for September if that goes ahead, if not we will try for Christmas 2022 that will cost another 2k

[aprilshack]

So having a car hire and flight package you are covered? What happens of they went bust but you are paying monthly direct debit installments? Do you stop it or have to pay the lot to get everything back?

[SamH88]

Originally Posted by Leia77

Thanks all. As we fly from Glasgow, there are only two direct routes, with VA or TUI. My nervousness around VA is if we book with them and they do go bust, then we’re priced out of TUI flights - similar to what happened when Thomas Cook went (we were luckily booked with VA already).

These replies have reassured me, so thank you. If the price is ok, and that’s a big “if” I’d go ahead and book (with CC, of course )

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Would you consider the short flight to Dublin the a direct flight from here? Depending on when you're going fares aren't crazy expensive, ours in March were very reasonable, plus you clear US immigration in Dublin airport before boarding.

[MissCellaneous]

For reward flights, in the worst case scenario, the taxes would be covered by a credit card, and I think I remember reading that the points are a separate company so should be secure, is that right? 🤔

[Mr Tom Morrow]

Originally Posted by aprilshack

So having a car hire and flight package you are covered? What happens of they went bust but you are paying monthly direct debit installments? Do you stop it or have to pay the lot to get everything back?

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If a Company went under you would stop the Direct Debits immediately. However make sure you have paid at least £100 by Credit Card as that way all your payments are covered even if from the Bank.
Never pay for a flight or Holiday on your Bank Card, always use a Credit Card.