Minimum wage rise

[Tinks2014]

Originally Posted by Loftus

We get many posts here complaining about benefit scroungers and the like.

But if a company can't exist without the country subsidising the wages of it's workers so that they can afford to live that's just another form of benefit, only it's corporate rather than individual.

I understand the logic behind the policy but let's recognise it for what it is.

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There are many workers that are not claiming any benefits at all. Some companies need that push to pay their staff a decent wage or wouldn’t do so otherwise.

[Sew109]

Originally Posted by Cloverlady

What about those who have worked hard and had payrises and promotions (son's friend's girlfriend who works in a supermarket ) to earn just about that now.
That wipes out her advantage.
I guess there are loads in this position in the lower paid jobs who work bloomin' hard to try to go up the ranks and suddenly all the staff are at the same pay level.
I doubt companies are going to be able to afford to increase all of the promoted staff's wages to the same advantage it was before.
It's those I feel for.

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This is the biggest problem in the civil service work you ≈≈≈≈ off or do the bare minimum (or less) and you get the same rewards.

[Loftus]

Originally Posted by Tinks2014

There are many workers that are not claiming any benefits at all. Some companies need that push to pay their staff a decent wage or wouldn’t do so otherwise.

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Sorry, crossed wires I think.

When I talk about policy I mean working tax credits, not the NMW.

[levtweeney]

Originally Posted by mitch84

It’s a very good thing for those on minimum wage, even if costs of goods/services go up at least they can keep up. That is incredibly important. People deserve to be able to afford to feed their family/heat their house.

Unfortunately the differential issue is a real issue. My main client is a national food retailer, we had cleaners on nmw, but cleaning supervisors, security guards, front of house staff on much higher. The last differential will be gone at this latest rise and all will be on minimum wage. It’s very sad for these more skilled roles, that have worked their bum off. But cost of food has gone through the roof, and they can’t put all items up 6.6% this year, 2.2% last year, over 6% the year before as the majority of the population have not had their pay increased.

I’m middle management and my husband is self employed and earning the PA. My salary was cut initially with Covid, then has remained the same. Huge chunks of the population have had pay freezes if not pay cuts.

We’re thankfully absolutely fine. But what about all those people who maybe already earned £9.50 an hour, food is increasing, petrol is increasing, heating bills are increasing, they haven’t had a payrise in 3 years, have a mortgage and a family.

Pubs/restaurants/shops are closing. I even went to supposedly wealthy Alderley edge recently to click and collect something as we needed it urgently. I went for a walk round with the dog whilst my husband went to the Argos and one in 4 shop fronts were closed/boarded.

If we aren’t careful most people won’t be able to afford any luxuries. A pint in the pub, a sandwich out, a cleaner, nails done etc. All non essential yes, but whole industries are built on those services

It’s a very difficult one, but I just hope the budget is more balanced than just upping NMW

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How was this problem solved in the past?

This was ever the problem with a minimum wage. Throughout its lifetime those who got a raise in minimum wage suddenly found they were close to or the same as those other workers who were slightly bettered paid at that time. I think this is what many are saying

Did we, in the past, say, oh this does not look fair? Let’s not give the minimum wage rise. No, of course not. That is not how it works. We give the minimum wage rise as a sign that this is what we expect is the minimum to live off. All other roles will have to either stay the same or increase slightly. But we know in reality other wages will increase as people aren’t daft and they know their skills need more renumeration than say the minimum wage.

This is how it works. This is how it always works. You set a new minimum wage and other jobs and their wages increase. This is a good thing. Yes there may be a time where you suddenly find your the same wage as someone you feel more qualified than but in time those wages will rise. So in effect we always have those on the minimum wage and the rest on staggered increments going upwards.

Unless someone can come up with a better scheme, then this seems as fair as can be possible. I for one will continue to think it one of the best policies from Labour ever.

I hope I was clear

Minimum wage rise = good
Rest of wages = will increase

[mitch84]

Originally Posted by levtweeney

How was this problem solved in the past?

This was ever the problem with a minimum wage. Throughout its lifetime those who got a raise in minimum wage suddenly found they were close to or the same as those other workers who were slightly bettered paid at that time. I think this is what many are saying

Did we, in the past, say, oh this does not look fair? Let’s not give the minimum wage rise. No, of course not. That is not how it works. We give the minimum wage rise as a sign that this is what we expect is the minimum to live off. All other roles will have to either stay the same or increase slightly. But we know in reality other wages will increase as people aren’t daft and they know their skills need more renumeration than say the minimum wage.

This is how it works. This is how it always works. You set a new minimum wage and other jobs and their wages increase. This is a good thing. Yes there may be a time where you suddenly find your the same wage as someone you feel more qualified than but in time those wages will rise. So in effect we always have those on the minimum wage and the rest on staggered increments going upwards.

Unless someone can come up with a better scheme, then this seems as fair as can be possible. I for one will continue to think it one of the best policies from Labour ever.

I hope I was clear

Minimum wage rise = good
Rest of wages = will increase

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You were totally clear, but I’m just not that sure it’s that simple.

I go back to my food retailer example. Our contract started in 2017. Cleaners on £7.50, supervisors, security guards on £9.50. Now all on £9.50 from April. Their wages have not gone up in 5 years not by a penny, yet minimum wage has gone up over 26%. This is a very large, very recognisable company. And they are not alone.

I don’t know many people whose salary has gone up 26.6% since 2017. Are you a teacher? If so what has your salary done? I’m sure it’s increased but by 26%? There have been all sorts of public sector freezes I believe (I’m private)

In that time my gross salary has increased by 2% other things have helped, personal allowance was increased, the tax bandings were adjusted etc, but I definitely had more disposable income in 2017.

The problem is the cost of things gets passed onto us all. Some we can choose to just not buy (say takeaways) but that’s complicated too as that employs lots of people, but others we can’t avoid.

No one is going to come and top me up by 24%. Nor should they btw I’d much rather those on NMW get it, but I really feel for those who have had similar rises in that time (or none as per above), were on relatively low income before and are juggling rising house prices, fuel, food, second hand cars, everything increasing whilst trying to support their family

It’s a very tough one and I don’t know the answer either but I think we can all agree it’s good for those who were trying to scratch a living on £8.91 an hour

[JAF]

Originally Posted by levtweeney

How was this problem solved in the past?

This was ever the problem with a minimum wage. Throughout its lifetime those who got a raise in minimum wage suddenly found they were close to or the same as those other workers who were slightly bettered paid at that time. I think this is what many are saying

Did we, in the past, say, oh this does not look fair? Let’s not give the minimum wage rise. No, of course not. That is not how it works. We give the minimum wage rise as a sign that this is what we expect is the minimum to live off. All other roles will have to either stay the same or increase slightly. But we know in reality other wages will increase as people aren’t daft and they know their skills need more renumeration than say the minimum wage.

This is how it works. This is how it always works. You set a new minimum wage and other jobs and their wages increase. This is a good thing. Yes there may be a time where you suddenly find your the same wage as someone you feel more qualified than but in time those wages will rise. So in effect we always have those on the minimum wage and the rest on staggered increments going upwards.

Unless someone can come up with a better scheme, then this seems as fair as can be possible. I for one will continue to think it one of the best policies from Labour ever.

I hope I was clear

Minimum wage rise = good
Rest of wages = will increase

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Certainly didn’t work like that for upper management for dh when he was working. Unions managed to negotiate a reasonable flat wage increase for lower end paid staff but upper tiers did not get a similar percentage increase effectively decreasing the differential between staff levels.

[Cloverlady]

Originally Posted by JAF

Certainly didn’t work like that for upper management for dh when he was working. Unions managed to negotiate a reasonable flat wage increase for lower end paid staff but upper tiers did not get a similar percentage increase effectively decreasing the differential between staff levels.

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Yep, same for my husband on his higher salary, they should all keep the differential, even at their six figure incomes, in theory. People work hard to get up there and have all the responsibility that goes with it.

But agree with Mitch earlier on up the thread, not sure what the answer is, but it's good for those on lower incomes

[derbylass]

I agree, my daughter is currently paid £6.60 / hour in a job where anyone above 23 is getting £8.91 for the same job. Glad to see the young one's getting a better wage

[taffs travels]

I think the increase is great but the fact that it only applies to over 23's causes employment problems for people in this 23-25 bracket. I know local employers who actively employ younger staff at the lower wage so they can pay them less. As these jobs are usually temporary by nature they never get to the higher wage or the 2 year protected rights stage so they just start again with the younger ones. I know several 23-28 year olds who lost their hospitality jobs last year, but don't get a look in with any new jobs.
I don't know what the solution would be though