Worried about my dad

[DisneyDaffodil]

I tend to feel that, providing your father is of sound mind, this church is actually making him happy and providing him with friendship and activities.

Maybe you could attend with him or go to a social gathering with him to put your mind at rest if he were willing for you to go. Explain you are interested in finding out more about them as he seems to be enjoying it so much (which isn’t actually untrue)

I can understand you being concerned about him contributing towards the church, which isn’t unusual in religions, but it is his business and again providing he isn’t being forced into paying there isn’t really anything you can do about it. I also wouldn’t be happy about the homophobia of the church but followers may not all follow every rule strictly and if your dad isn’t treating your sister any differently then hopefully this means he isn’t being influenced by this particular aspect of the religion.

[Gill H]

OK - I don't talk much about my beliefs on here as I don't think it's the right place. I'm not trying to convert anyone, just wanted to give a few bits of info.

The Alpha course comes from the Church of England and the content was agreed by all the main denominations - Roman Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, Pentecostal etc etc. It does have some aspects that not all churches agree on, but it's very mainstream and certainly not a sign of a cult. In fact it's a sign that the church using it is linked to other churches of different denominations, and understands that faith is a journey and people are individuals. In a cult, you have to believe what you're told or you're out. In a healthy church, there is room for different beliefs and ideas, and an understanding that there are many topics where people can disagree and still work together.

Money - most churches these days encourage you to give by direct debit rather than putting money in the plate. It means that they can claim Gift Aid on your donation, and also means that how much you give is private. Nothing unusual there. Some churches encourage people to give 10% of their monthly income (known as a tithe, which means tenth). There are certainly some churches around which lay guilt trips on people about this, which I really hate. I could go into details about how the tithes described in the Bible included what we would now call taxes - they paid for the whole community and every aspect of life, so I don't believe you can just cut and paste the situation from those days onto today's world. But as long as he is not being coerced into giving, and not giving more than he can afford, that's nothing to worry about it itself.

The Evangelical Alliance - again, very mainstream and encompasses churches from most denominations. However, bear in mind that 'Evangelical' means something very different in the UK and has nothing to do with the Trump-supporting hate preachers you see in the US.

Baptism - all churches will baptise adults. However, usually those churches which baptise babies would not expect you to be baptised again as an adult. This is where there are huge differences of opinion. Some churches believe that you should only be baptised when you are old enough to understand what you are doing, and that it should be done after someone has become a Christian as an adult. There's a difference between those who believe that baptising an infant essentially 'makes them a Christian' (although some would say they have to claim it for themselves later) and others who say that to become a Christian, you need to confess that you are going the wrong way and ask Jesus to live in your heart and make you a new person. You are then baptised - not just to 'join the church' but as a witness to everyone about your new life. No church would expect someone to be baptised just to fit in or join the church. If he is doing it just because he wants to fit in, then that is a concern. However, it may be that he genuinely has found faith, but finds it difficult to talk about. Many do, particularly older men. The structure of the baptism service can be helpful because it's all explained to the friends and family, and there is usually a time for 'testimony' where the people being baptised can explain why they are doing this and what their faith means to them.

LGBT issues - you may have seen a recent report from the Church of England that basically said marriage is between a man and woman only, and although it basically said 'don't be horrible to gay people' it stopped short of letting gay people get married in church. This is one of those issues where Christians disagree. The 'official line' of many churches will be that gay people should be celibate. However, in my experience the vast majority of actual people in the pews don't really give two hoots about other people's relationships. and in fact many churches are declaring themselves 'inclusive'. There are many Christians who affirm gay relationships. I'm one. I went to the wedding of two male gay friends in a church in Scotland and it was a beautiful service. There is a long way to go on this one, but unless it is being emphasised strongly by this particular church, you might find that in practice there is room for people to genuinely disagree.

I hope this is helpful and doesn't come across as preaching.

[BucksBugsy]

Originally Posted by Gill H

OK - I don't talk much about my beliefs on here as I don't think it's the right place. I'm not trying to convert anyone, just wanted to give a few bits of info.

The Alpha course comes from the Church of England and the content was agreed by all the main denominations - Roman Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, Pentecostal etc etc. It does have some aspects that not all churches agree on, but it's very mainstream and certainly not a sign of a cult. In fact it's a sign that the church using it is linked to other churches of different denominations, and understands that faith is a journey and people are individuals. In a cult, you have to believe what you're told or you're out. In a healthy church, there is room for different beliefs and ideas, and an understanding that there are many topics where people can disagree and still work together.

Money - most churches these days encourage you to give by direct debit rather than putting money in the plate. It means that they can claim Gift Aid on your donation, and also means that how much you give is private. Nothing unusual there. Some churches encourage people to give 10% of their monthly income (known as a tithe, which means tenth). There are certainly some churches around which lay guilt trips on people about this, which I really hate. I could go into details about how the tithes described in the Bible included what we would now call taxes - they paid for the whole community and every aspect of life, so I don't believe you can just cut and paste the situation from those days onto today's world. But as long as he is not being coerced into giving, and not giving more than he can afford, that's nothing to worry about it itself.

The Evangelical Alliance - again, very mainstream and encompasses churches from most denominations. However, bear in mind that 'Evangelical' means something very different in the UK and has nothing to do with the Trump-supporting hate preachers you see in the US.

Baptism - all churches will baptise adults. However, usually those churches which baptise babies would not expect you to be baptised again as an adult. This is where there are huge differences of opinion. Some churches believe that you should only be baptised when you are old enough to understand what you are doing, and that it should be done after someone has become a Christian as an adult. There's a difference between those who believe that baptising an infant essentially 'makes them a Christian' (although some would say they have to claim it for themselves later) and others who say that to become a Christian, you need to confess that you are going the wrong way and ask Jesus to live in your heart and make you a new person. You are then baptised - not just to 'join the church' but as a witness to everyone about your new life. No church would expect someone to be baptised just to fit in or join the church. If he is doing it just because he wants to fit in, then that is a concern. However, it may be that he genuinely has found faith, but finds it difficult to talk about. Many do, particularly older men. The structure of the baptism service can be helpful because it's all explained to the friends and family, and there is usually a time for 'testimony' where the people being baptised can explain why they are doing this and what their faith means to them.

LGBT issues - you may have seen a recent report from the Church of England that basically said marriage is between a man and woman only, and although it basically said 'don't be horrible to gay people' it stopped short of letting gay people get married in church. This is one of those issues where Christians disagree. The 'official line' of many churches will be that gay people should be celibate. However, in my experience the vast majority of actual people in the pews don't really give two hoots about other people's relationships. and in fact many churches are declaring themselves 'inclusive'. There are many Christians who affirm gay relationships. I'm one. I went to the wedding of two male gay friends in a church in Scotland and it was a beautiful service. There is a long way to go on this one, but unless it is being emphasised strongly by this particular church, you might find that in practice there is room for people to genuinely disagree.

I hope this is helpful and doesn't come across as preaching.

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Very useful Gill - thank you.

[amy56]

Originally Posted by sam_b

Thanks for your responses. The church is part of the Evangelical Alliance.
Whilst I agree with all of the comments about faith bringing comfort and the social aspects of church, I really struggle with their stance on homosexuality, which is pretty hardline. eauk/resources/what-...-homosexuality

I don’t have an issue with his attendance, I really am troubled by him being born again into that faith as it suggests that he accepts all of their views. Dad, is a pleaser, and honestly, I doubt he will have given this much thought - someone suggested it and he is going along with it.
I note that the church also encourages people to mix with those that share their religious beliefs (rather than on believers) which also sounds cultish.

🙁

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I would talk to your dad to get his perspective.

I’m a Christian and a member of an evangelical church. We are encouraged to build relationships within the church to help us grow in our faith and have that support from those that have the same beliefs, but equally we are encouraged to live in the ‘real world’ and just try to be a good witness to those around us if ever asked about our faith.

I totally understand your concerns and I totally get that it can appear cult like, especially with lots of negative media coverage, often in relations to views on the LGBTQ community. I would agree with Duchy, in that many of us, do not hold those views and actually believe in loving everyone for who they are, and rejecting no one (sorry that sounds very happy clappy).

I think the only person that can alleviate your concerns is your dad, and if he is genuinely happy then I’d take his lead - perhaps losing your mum and realising his growing age has just made him think more about end of life stuff and perhaps this brings him comfort as well as friendship within the church.

Ps tithing is a normal part of church life, but in our church there would never be any pressure - you give if you can and want to - I do give by direct debit as it’s easier and lots of our church funds are given to local/international charities, so I see it as a way of my charity giving and see no problem with it for me at least.

I wish you all well - particularly your sister - I hope your dad can reassure her that his feelings for her are unchanged throughout all of this xx

[amy56]

Originally Posted by Gill H

OK - I don't talk much about my beliefs on here as I don't think it's the right place. I'm not trying to convert anyone, just wanted to give a few bits of info.

The Alpha course comes from the Church of England and the content was agreed by all the main denominations - Roman Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, Pentecostal etc etc. It does have some aspects that not all churches agree on, but it's very mainstream and certainly not a sign of a cult. In fact it's a sign that the church using it is linked to other churches of different denominations, and understands that faith is a journey and people are individuals. In a cult, you have to believe what you're told or you're out. In a healthy church, there is room for different beliefs and ideas, and an understanding that there are many topics where people can disagree and still work together.

Money - most churches these days encourage you to give by direct debit rather than putting money in the plate. It means that they can claim Gift Aid on your donation, and also means that how much you give is private. Nothing unusual there. Some churches encourage people to give 10% of their monthly income (known as a tithe, which means tenth). There are certainly some churches around which lay guilt trips on people about this, which I really hate. I could go into details about how the tithes described in the Bible included what we would now call taxes - they paid for the whole community and every aspect of life, so I don't believe you can just cut and paste the situation from those days onto today's world. But as long as he is not being coerced into giving, and not giving more than he can afford, that's nothing to worry about it itself.

The Evangelical Alliance - again, very mainstream and encompasses churches from most denominations. However, bear in mind that 'Evangelical' means something very different in the UK and has nothing to do with the Trump-supporting hate preachers you see in the US.

Baptism - all churches will baptise adults. However, usually those churches which baptise babies would not expect you to be baptised again as an adult. This is where there are huge differences of opinion. Some churches believe that you should only be baptised when you are old enough to understand what you are doing, and that it should be done after someone has become a Christian as an adult. There's a difference between those who believe that baptising an infant essentially 'makes them a Christian' (although some would say they have to claim it for themselves later) and others who say that to become a Christian, you need to confess that you are going the wrong way and ask Jesus to live in your heart and make you a new person. You are then baptised - not just to 'join the church' but as a witness to everyone about your new life. No church would expect someone to be baptised just to fit in or join the church. If he is doing it just because he wants to fit in, then that is a concern. However, it may be that he genuinely has found faith, but finds it difficult to talk about. Many do, particularly older men. The structure of the baptism service can be helpful because it's all explained to the friends and family, and there is usually a time for 'testimony' where the people being baptised can explain why they are doing this and what their faith means to them.

LGBT issues - you may have seen a recent report from the Church of England that basically said marriage is between a man and woman only, and although it basically said 'don't be horrible to gay people' it stopped short of letting gay people get married in church. This is one of those issues where Christians disagree. The 'official line' of many churches will be that gay people should be celibate. However, in my experience the vast majority of actual people in the pews don't really give two hoots about other people's relationships. and in fact many churches are declaring themselves 'inclusive'. There are many Christians who affirm gay relationships. I'm one. I went to the wedding of two male gay friends in a church in Scotland and it was a beautiful service. There is a long way to go on this one, but unless it is being emphasised strongly by this particular church, you might find that in practice there is room for people to genuinely disagree.

I hope this is helpful and doesn't come across as preaching.

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Sorry Gill, I didn’t read all of the posts before I replied - you’ve put this so much better than I tried!

Thank you for posting x