Bookings for WDW packages significantly down according to Pete Werner?

[CosmicGirl]

Originally Posted by Mexy02

I don’t get why he thinks it’s on a downturn yet bought dvc, wouldn’t you wait to see if prices dropped first if things are as bad as he makes out?

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Personally, it wouldn't surprise me if much of his DVC shopping spree is actually related to their business. The more DVC content they produce and the more they stay and eat at DVC resorts on the job, the more of the purchases can be filed as a business expense. He probably also got a substantial discount on his resale contracts as a trade for all the promotion the Timeshare Store is getting, and is likely getting commission on contracts that sell via the alerts you can sign up for.
Maybe he went a little overboard on DVC and the business is now too cost-heavy on paper. That could explain the far more humble D23 presence this time around and the downgraded AP (which I'm sure can also be justified as a business expense).

[Squidgyness]

Originally Posted by Holidaylover19

A Disney holiday is expensive? You don't say!

Personally I'm outraged by the price of a beachside penthouse suite in Hawaii with its own private beach and a sports car to drive to and from swanky restaurants.

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It's not that it's expensive, people aren't specifically surprised by that, its how expensive it is relative to expectations, changing circumstances and other factors. More than one company has thought there was no problem increasing prices, cutting quality or both as they were expensive anyway so who cares.

In your example it would be like the hotel getting rid of the car, or downgrading it to a smaller/older model, or adding it as an extra, or having less cars so you wait longer for one.

I'm always fascinated by the companies that tell other companies what to do. Such as marketers telling Disney they should aim for a certain crowd, perhaps high earners short stayers. I'm sure they do their homework, but I cant help feeling - maybe they don't?

After all, if I was earning high five figures and decided to go to WDW, I likely wouldn't be staying in the values or moderates. But then, if you raise prices so I can still afford it, what if people who can't afford deluxes are priced out? Who will stay moderate if the other prices (food/tickets etc) have increased too much for them?

I doubt this will affect WDW too much though. They've got too many observers and too much financial clout to be affected. I think worst case scenario will be some value-clouding offers. Free extra fastpasses to tier 5 rides for instance. (Tier 5 being the restrooms.) Or perhaps FREE parking! WOW! Such value!

[AliceCooper9]

My theory on top of all the other reasons for attendance being down is that WDW is no longer targeting families as their main source revenue they just want adults with higher disposable incomes. This has been happening for a while and we are now seeing the results.

Revenue up(more adults spending) and attendance down(less kids).

Lots of evidence to suggest this has been happening like the latest price increase $59 for a MK dessert party child price. What child eats $59 worth of desserts at 9pm?
Endless upselling of premium events which the average family with kids cannot afford.
SWGE I asked WDW what they were doing for young kids for the opening of SWGE. My kids could not line up at 5am. The reply was nothing they just did not care at all.
We(2A+2C) could afford 2 weeks at the WL in 2016 now(2019 we were priced out to a moderate hotel. Soon we will be priced out to a Value.
We are considering 2022 as our next trip and if all we can afford is a Value resort I am not sure staying onsite will happen.
So ultimately average families with kids are being priced out.

[salmim]

Was rammed yesterday at MGM!

[myaquarium]

When you look at the new universal hotels offering good size bright fresh rooms for $100 you realise Disney are no longer prepared to compete. Universal have the best water park best theming and best rides except one fop. Hollywood studios has massively lost its way. I don’t know what it’s targets are. Star Wars against toy story against pre school against old world mgm. It’s a mish mash and the park is all over the place. MK a family park with less and less families. A world of magic soon to be met with Tron. As for Epcot it’s becoming a place to drink eat and be rowdy. Not a good place to take your young family thru too many times getting more like the old pleasure island. In fact imo the only park we really enjoyed was animal kingdom which still holds the Disney spirit.
Add this with massive hikes for everything from food to room rates and it’s no wonder people are turning away.

[LostGirl]

Never stayed on site, never will.

Don't see the point of paying over the odds to have Mickey Mouse bedspreads. Hell for the $'s they charge you could buy your own MM bedspreads 40 times over!

[Nimbus]

Originally Posted by chmurf

lower attendance due to higher prices, yeah, I'll take it, but we both know this will come at another kind of cost ... cuts in entertainment, shows, possibly maintenance

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Yes, but the alternative - higher attendance, more crowded parks, less availability at onsite hotels - also doesn't appeal.

We're doomed either way!

I may as well cancel my holiday right now.

Originally Posted by chmurf

hell, look at Disneyland Paris, you'll see how the "best disney park in the world" as of 1992 has gone downhill (and will not even recover with the new future additions to WDS)
see how the park was hurt by cuts in shows, entertainement, and staffing in general.

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A lot of people would argue with you there. Many folks say that the French Disney parks are now better than they've ever been. You also mention investing in new additions to WDS. I thought you were trying to convince us that as attendance drops then things are cut, whereas £2billion is being added.

Mind you attendance at DLP is almost double now than what was back in 1992.

[Nimbus]

Originally Posted by pinkspideruk

I find it interesting people are complaining about the queues and things and the FP system.

I first when to WDW 33 years ago, queues were often an hour plus wait for smaller rides like Mr Toad and Snowwhite, for BTM a 3 hour wait was normal. No in queue entertainment, often outside queues with the occasional water fountain!

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Clearly you didn't get the memo that said we were supposed to say there were hardly any queues at theme parks back when we were younger and that it was so much cheaper back then that almost everyone visited. Oh, and something about what Walt wanted. Or didn't want? I forget now.

[Squidgyness]

Originally Posted by Nimbus

Clearly you didn't get the memo that said we were supposed to say there were hardly any queues at theme parks back when we were younger and that it was so much cheaper back then that almost everyone visited. Oh, and something about what Walt wanted. Or didn't want? I forget now.

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Imo, WDW peaked in the early 2000s. I could pin it down further, but sometime after Soarin' and Test Track the whole thing faltered. I'm sure they'd pin it on the recession, but I'd argue it started before then. Paper fastpasses to skip as many lines as you could manage, great exchange rate, actual tangible improvements, better merch, cheaper merch etc. Backlot tour, Lights Motors Action, less people - even in summer compared to autumn now, fewer seperately ticketed events, the monorail seemed nicer, etc etc.

All opinion of course. I'm sure everyone has a different point. And if we lost some of the things that we have now I might be a little sad - but I wouldn't mind bringing back some of the things we've lost. Thank goodness for some investment at last in recent years. It's still not enough imo - and has to be maintained! - but it's welcome. About 2012-2015 I'd given up on WDW, its not as bad now.

I'd argue Orlando as a whole peaked in about 2002-2005, except Universal Orlando which, along with the arguable inclusion of Animal Kingdom, is the only park I'd rate higher on a 1-10 scale now than back in the early 2000s. If you'd asked me in 2017 Hollywood studios would probably have dropped a good 3 points on that scale too. as it is now, it's still only a 6 compared to perhaps a 7 to 7.5 I would have rated it in 2003.

Seaworld is about a 5 now, I'd have given it a 9/10 in 2003. Nostalgia is a heck of a drug I suppose.

[Lisbon]

When we were there in June / July the parks were quiet but the queues were horrendous .
We had to wait to get on the people mover and they were literally stopping people getting on but as you looked around the ride was running with no one on it.
We said at the time it this was being done so that people started booking Disney hotels to get 60 day fastpass access rather than have to wait 30 days and then the fastpasses are gone.
Rob