Virgin Atlantic refuse refund

[mental4ever]

That’s the way I’m reading the original post as well. I would not expect any airline to compensate me if I cancelled.

As mentioned in previous posts you should have waited for the airline to cancel. 😔😔😔

[YorkshireT]

Op should raise a chargeback and if necessary a S75 claim with the credit card company if paid by cc as jointly and severally responsible for breach of contract- failure to refund on frustration. If didn’t pay credit card should try chargeback on debit and if all else fails issue small claims. As above, CMA are looking at such practices having rapped Virgin already for delaying refunds so get onto them.

[Donaldfan]

Originally Posted by Kraken

I am afraid the above is 100% correct. If the flight actually operated but you did not fly, then it's not Virgin's job to refund you. That is what travel insurance is for. The offer of a voucher is a good-will gesture and one I would take.

You could have booked a flight and not hold a valid passport. The airline website will take your money - but would you expect them to refund you?

Just for clarity - I can't wait to get out to Orlando again. I've got 2x 14 day Universal tickets (with Express) waiting for me from a guest services complaint. We are both really glad that we got out there last November for 2 weeks.

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I'm in a similar position, I've got 5 free nights at Disney due to problems I had at Beach Club last year. Thankfully the free nights don't have an expiration date.

[YorkshireT]

Originally Posted by mental4ever

That’s the way I’m reading the original post as well. I would not expect any airline to compensate me if I cancelled.

As mentioned in previous posts you should have waited for the airline to cancel. 😔😔😔

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All frustrated contracts involve someone ‘cancelling’ at some stage. If OP did ‘cancel’ they told Virgin they couldn’t travel because it was impossible.

[headpin]

Originally Posted by YorkshireT

All frustrated contracts involve someone ‘cancelling’ at some stage. If OP did ‘cancel’ they told Virgin they couldn’t travel because it was impossible.

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I think if you read the guidance you will see that you are not fully understanding the frustration definition.

The airline are still providing the service. The consumer can still travel. It is not for the airline to know whether or not the passenger will be denied entry. Certain persons are still permitted to travel and enter. How does the airline know if the purchaser falls in to that category or not? The contract can still be performed, i.e. being flown across the Atlantic. Therefore it is NOT legally frustrated.

However, in these strange times guidance and good trade practice would suggest that a suitable and equitable solution be found. But frustrated in law, I do not think so.

[YorkshireT]

Originally Posted by headpin

I think if you read the guidance you will see that you are not fully understanding the frustration definition.

The airline are still providing the service. The consumer can still travel. It is not for the airline to know whether or not the passenger will be denied entry. Certain persons are still permitted to travel and enter. How does the airline know if the purchaser falls in to that category or not? The contract can still be performed, i.e. being flown across the Atlantic. Therefore it is NOT legally frustrated.

However, in these strange times guidance and good trade practice would suggest that a suitable and equitable solution be found. But frustrated in law, I do not think so.

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I’m understanding it.

The contract is to convey the passenger to the USA.

This is impossible to do because of the pandemic. The airline cannot let the passenger on the flight because of unforeseen circumstances (pandemic) at time of booking, passenger is not allowed into US and Virgin would never let them on the plane.

That is the very definition of a frustrated contract. Passenger cannot get visa or waiver (Esta) to enter country due to pandemic which is the frustrating event.

Take a look at the case law on frustration. Many cases where the ‘thing’ could be supplied but even then the contract is still frustrated. Like the rooms in the cancelled Edward VII coronation. But here the thing cannot even be supplied because OP would be denied boarding.

I would agree with you on the good business practise aspect.

[headpin]

Originally Posted by YorkshireT

I’m understanding it.

The contract is to convey the passenger to the USA.

This is impossible to do because of the pandemic. The airline cannot let the passenger on the flight because of unforeseen circumstances (pandemic) at time of booking, passenger is not allowed into US and Virgin would never let them on the plane.

That is the very definition of a frustrated contract. Passenger cannot get visa or waiver (Esta) to enter country due to pandemic which is the frustrating event.

Take a look at the case law on frustration. Many cases where the ‘thing’ could be supplied but even then the contract is still frustrated. Like the rooms in the cancelled Edward VII coronation. But here the thing cannot even be supplied because OP would be denied boarding.

I would agree with you on the good business practise aspect.

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The airline can carry the passenger. Certain people are allowed entry. They may have dual nationality and hold a US Passport for instance. Or be in one of the exempt categories. It is not for the airline to know this. They can fly you you, full stop. If you cannot enter that is your problem, not theirs.

This is why insurance should cover this situation. Otherwise anyone could book a ticket and then say they are not permitted to enter due to similar issues and say the contract is frustrated. For example if an ESTA/Visa is refused. Try getting a refund then on the basis of frustration. And also in this situation your insurance would tell you where to go too.

[Bobbins]

Originally Posted by headpin

The airline can carry the passenger. Certain people are allowed entry. They may have dual nationality and hold a US Passport for instance. Or be in one of the exempt categories. It is not for the airline to know this. They can fly you you, full stop. If you cannot enter that is your problem, not theirs.

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It’s not about the flight itself - it’s that the purpose of the flight is to go on holiday and the holiday is now not allowed.

[lizzie145]

What if the country I'm going to says I can't come in or I have to quarantine?

Some travellers are now facing another dilemma – the UK Government says they can travel, yet the country they're going to won't let them in or insists they must quarantine for a certain amount of time on arrival.

If you do need to quarantine when you get to your holiday destination, it's unlikely airlines or hotels will offer a refund if they're open and running services. You also won't be able to use credit or debit card protection, because the service is still available.

So if you don't want to go, you'll likely have to see if you're covered on your travel insurance. But it'll depend on the policy you have and who it's with, as answers vary. For example, Direct Line told us it would offer cover if you bought the policy before 13 March 2020, Planet Earth said it would assess things on a "case-by-case" basis, while Admiral said you wouldn't be covered.

[Thorpy]

Originally Posted by Warkman58

If I read it properly was it you who cancelled your flights? The riles are different if you cancel compared to the airline cancelling

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The point is that nobody cancelled the flight. Albeit there's not really much of a choice. The OP technically chooses not to travel because they know they won't be allowed in.

If you're not allowed into the US, during the pandemic or normal times, it's your problem, even if it's not your fault. That's where I think OP is at unfortunately. It's what we feared for our August trip at the start of the pandemic as we were booked with US carriers. We were lucky, they cancelled and refunded.

We're also many months into this pandemic situation, such that there is a reasonable chance OP knew about the restriction when they booked the flights, clearly expecting it to clear up. If OP didn't book when restrictions were in place, many will have, expecting the restrictions to lift before they travel. If they don't it's your problem, whilst again not really your fault, as it is hard to claim a restriction that was present when you booked is unforseen. It's why we have nothing booked despite desperately wanting to go next year.