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Old 21 Aug 19, 05:24 PM  
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#111
tspill
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Originally Posted by Nimbus View Post
Blimey, £1000 per month into a holiday? I'm clearly in the wrong job!

More like about a quarter of that, if I'm lucky.

Unfortunately £250 a month into a pension won't get me much of a pension at 67. Which is why I'm putting more than that into the pension in addition to saving a little for a Florida holiday every few years. It may not seem like it, but most of us don't actually go to Florida every year.
see my earlier post on this. I was basing that a Florida holiday for a family of four would cost £10k+ these days for most.
It was just for illustration. The other side is that some go multiple times per year.

The point is more that it is about choices we make rather than the number.

Edited at 05:25 PM.
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Old 21 Aug 19, 05:27 PM  
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Originally Posted by DreamDisney View Post
State pension was never designed to provide for as long as it currently does. See below from the ONS site:

In 1908 when the State Pension was first introduced for those aged 70 and over, a woman of this age was expected to live on average an additional 9.3 years, and a man 8.4 years (1901), meaning pensions needed to last around 9 years. However, compare this to the latest figures and we see how pensions need to last longer. The current state pension age for men is 65 and for women it will reach 65 by November 2018. In 2011 men and women at this age were expected to live for approximately 20 more years, meaning we need to make our pensions last more than twice as long as when they were first introduced.

A little out of date, but you get the gist. It's also important to note that whilst the average life expectancies in 1908, for a 70 year old, were approx. 9 years, the life expectancy at birth was far lower and most people were not expected to even reach the state retirement age.

Now, we not only have far more people attaining state pension age, they are also living far longer than was originally accounted for. So, sadly, it is just not sustainable as successive governments have failed to address the issue for decades now.

My personal take is that the intention is not to do away with it entirely, but rather to increase the age to such a point that it mirrors the original intention. ie, most people won't reach that age, and those that do will only have a life expectancy of circa 9 years. They have to do this gradually, as otherwise people will be woefully unprepared financially and will end up claiming additional benefits etc anyway.

It's also why they've coupled it with auto enrolment and minimum mandatory contributions from both employer and employee. I don't think they really want everyone working until such a late age (as rightly pointed out, it causes problems elsewhere), but rather they want people to have sufficient personal pension provision that they can afford to retire on their personal pensions alone somewhere between 60 and 65 anyway.

At least, that is my view.
My pension kicks in at the same retirement age as my state pension which at the moment is 67.
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Old 21 Aug 19, 05:32 PM  
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#113
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Originally Posted by tspill View Post
I guess my number was chosen based on this being a Florida holiday forum where a holiday can cost £10k+ for a family of four. So I was just using that as a comparison number that was a relevant to that demographic.
3 of us went for just under 6k including quick service dining in peak summer season, took very little spends. Saved for 2 years and some of that on a 0% card.
I think quite a few dibbers only go every other year or even longer in between. If you look at the yearly glitch thread you will see a lot of us can only do Florida on the cheap 😉
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Old 21 Aug 19, 05:42 PM  
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#114
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Originally Posted by dubletrub View Post
3 of us went for just under 6k including quick service dining in peak summer season, took very little spends. Saved for 2 years and some of that on a 0% card.
I think quite a few dibbers only go every other year or even longer in between. If you look at the yearly glitch thread you will see a lot of us can only do Florida on the cheap 😉

So if 6K is for three, then it might be around 8K for four - plus some spends. Not a million miles off what I quoted.

Like I said above, the number isn't the important bit - it is that fact we all get to make choices.
Change the number to anything you want - the point still remans - you chose to spend it on a holiday or anything else or you can save or invest it. Use a pension and if you are a tax payer you get 25% tax back for free. And if your employer offers salary sacrifice you get the 15% NI added as well. Money for free. (the %ages used are on net pay not gross)

Edited at 05:43 PM.
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Old 21 Aug 19, 05:49 PM  
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I keep reading that we can’t afford state pensions... but how do other countries afford it... we have one of the lowest state pensions in the world with one of the highest state pensions ages... what on earth has gone wrong?
And the baby boomers being well off is a myth to divide opinions and make the changes to pension ages seem more palatable to the younger generation...
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Old 21 Aug 19, 05:53 PM  
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Originally Posted by tspill View Post
Like I said above, the number isn't the important bit - it is that fact we all get to make choices.
Change the number to anything you want - the point still remans - you chose to spend it on a holiday or anything else or you can save or invest it. Use a pension and if you are a tax payer you get 25% tax back for free. And if your employer offers salary sacrifice you get the 15% NI added as well. Money for free. (the %ages used are on net pay not gross)
Or maybe we can pay into a pension and have a holiday every few years when we work hard.
Our old neighbour growing up was of your thinking, the family never had holidays put everything he had into different pots so they could retire early. 50 years old diagnosed with early onset alzheimer's, in a care home for 55, his saving and house split down the middle with half for his wife to live off and the other half paid all his fees.
My husband worked hard died at 60.
I am paying into a pension but I do believe we are allowed to live as well.
The people i talk of and live amongst pay their mortgage/rent, bills and living cost and are lucky to get a sun £9.50 holiday a year and you are judging those people for not saving and being unhappy that we cannot retire at a reasonable age when in these very working class areas people are not living into their 80s.
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Old 21 Aug 19, 05:54 PM  
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Originally Posted by djewkes View Post
I keep reading that we can’t afford state pensions... but how do other countries afford it... we have one of the lowest state pensions in the world with one of the highest state pensions ages... what on earth has gone wrong?
Rather than asking the general public to pay slightly more in taxation, the government has decided to raise the pension age and at the same time, reduce the tax rate for those earning above £150k a year.

Other countries pay far higher taxes to fund their pensions. There is no way that will happen under the Tories
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Old 21 Aug 19, 05:57 PM  
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Originally Posted by tspill View Post
The point is more that it is about choices we make rather than the number.
Yeah, but your number was at the higher end. Most DIBBers don't go on £12K holidays every year. And as the DIBB has often shown, an occasional holiday to Florida can work out no more expensive than a yearly holiday in, say, Spain.

My second point was, even if I put all the money I spend on Florida holidays into a pension pot, I won't have anything near enough to live off when I retire. It would make little difference to my pension.

So, sure, I can choose not to go to Florida every so often. But I still won't be able to retire "early" (before 70) if I do.
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Edited at 06:00 PM.
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Old 21 Aug 19, 06:00 PM  
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Originally Posted by tspill View Post
So if 6K is for three, then it might be around 8K for four - plus some spends. Not a million miles off what I quoted.
Saved for over 2 years plus credit card, last time I went was 2012.
You seem to quoting £10,000+ every year to get your figures !
So completely different
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Old 21 Aug 19, 06:03 PM  
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#120
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Originally Posted by Nimbus View Post
My second point was, even if I put all the money I spend on Florida holidays into a pension pot, I won't have anything near enough to live off when I retire. It would make little difference to my pension.
Spot on. TSpill has either a) a final salary pension b) £1m+ in a SIPP to retire at 53 to live comfortably

To suggest that younger people should give up holidays and iPhones and they will be able to retire at a similar age is farcical now that the decent final salary pensions have disappeared.
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