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Trip Planning Florida Florida Holiday Planning Questions, Suggestions and Tips. |
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20 Jan 20, 06:47 PM |
#141
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Imagineer
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PANIC!
Seriously, don't worry. It seems it doesn't really matter. You'll be fine (I think). Hopefully, you read the other parts of the form more thoroughly and didn't make any other mistakes. Although, even then, it might not matter. So probably no need to worry about that either.
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DLC: Jun 1996 // DLP: Aug 2013 // WDW: Dec 1997 | Feb 2000 | Mar 2001 | Feb 2006 | Oct 2010 | May 2012 | Aug 2014 | Apr 2016 | Apr 2023
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20 Jan 20, 07:04 PM |
#142
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Very Serious Dibber
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My passport doesn't, but the application for a US passport (DS11) certainly does, as did our application for a non immigrant visa (DS156) which specifically required first AND middle names as in passport, as did our application to register permanent residence (I-485) as well the one to abandon it (I-407)... There is no good reason why the ESTA form cannot include similar details. I don't have a middle name and I've always managed not to include one
I think it's fair to say that most people, dibbers included, manage to go about their daily business whilst correctly answering questions regarding their name(s), whether verbally or in writing. The fact that so many people have been caught out by this particular form speaks for itself. To argue otherwise, in my opinion, is rather condescending. |
20 Jan 20, 08:14 PM |
#143
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All round good bloke
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Last time I saw someone try and get passed CBP worhout middle names on their estas the rubber gloves game out and they were strip searched. They were then forced to watch whole series of David Hasslehoff programs.
Ok so I said that up - dont panic !
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Fancy some light relief? Have a look at my Florida 2018 trippy here. No entrance charge and everyone is welcome |
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21 Jan 20, 01:38 AM |
#144
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Imagineer
Join Date: Nov 10
Location: Durham
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Opinions don't detract from the fact ESTA application requires a high level of concentration as per great care most apply when completing/buying flights/holiday, both are paramountly important.
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21 Jan 20, 10:17 AM |
#145
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Very Serious Dibber
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What comes to my mind when reading this thread is something in the spirit of 'Res ipsa loquitur': 'the thing speaks for itself' in Latin, a legal doctrine that provides us with a (rebuttable) presumption of negligence in certain circumstances. I say in 'the spirit' given that this doctrine clearly has no application here, but serves as a reminder that sometimes, even in law, we are allowed to make inferences and presumptions from a set of circumstances. Here, I would argue, that for so many people to omit their middle name from their application, the form must fail to make it clear that it ought to be included.
It seems, by the way, that other parts of the form aren't proving quite as challenging to applicants? or are we to assume that once an applicant complete their name, s/he manages to regain optimum levels of care, attention and concentrations ? It's often easier to side with authority; it may even feel 'righteous' to do so. But it can be wrong all the same. It's entirely right to advise readers to include their middle name on their ESTA application, but surely it is possible to do so without resorting to righteousness?! In my opinion it is. |
21 Jan 20, 02:07 PM |
#146
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Imagineer
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But the UK passport and all (?) other passports do not contain a middle name field on them. So asking for people to put what's shown in the Middle Name part of the passport into a Middle Name box on the form would be difficult. Because there is no Middle Name part in the passport.
Again, to reiterate, this section of the ESTA is there for people to enter the same details as shown in their passport in the same fields. Enter what's in your Given Name field in your passport into the Given Name field in the ESTA form. I think this thread and others has shown that the fact that some people have incorrectly filled out this form is because some people tend to ignore the instructions telling them how to fill in the form and, instead, make assumptions. The instructions are clear but people don't read them. I don't disagree that making it even clearer might help a few more people to fill out the form correctly. I don't think adding a middle name box would ensure that they entered the same information as shown in their passport (which may or may not include their middle name). The form is not asking you to enter your middle name; it's asking you to enter the same information shown on your passport (which it clearly states at the beginning of the section). There are only so many times where the form (and people here on the DIBB) can say "enter what's in your passport". If people choose to ignore that, then so be it. For the foreseeable future it doesn't seem to matter in regards to this Given Name field - the CBP officials don't care whether the details exactly match the passport or not. All I'm trying to do here on the DIBB is say to people - Please Read the Form. Don't assume. Read the instructions. That applies to all important forms, not just the ESTA. That's all.
__________________
DLC: Jun 1996 // DLP: Aug 2013 // WDW: Dec 1997 | Feb 2000 | Mar 2001 | Feb 2006 | Oct 2010 | May 2012 | Aug 2014 | Apr 2016 | Apr 2023
~ Trip Report Indexes ~ Edited at 02:16 PM. |
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21 Jan 20, 02:42 PM |
#147
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Imagineer
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BTW, other parts of the form do prove challenging to applicants. There are comments about what to put in other parts of the ESTA form. Often this comes down to people not reading the instructions shown when they click on the ?. In other cases, people don't realise that some boxes are optional and they don't need to fill those parts in. There have been numerous posts about DIBBers incorrectly filling in other parts of the form (eg. selecting 'yes' to one of the applicability questions - especially the "serious crime" one).
The only reason this thread (and similar ones) has come up is because the US officials changed the ESTA rules regarding what was supposed to go into that Given Name box. Originally (pre 2018) the form said that you weren't supposed to include a middle name even if it appeared in your passport. Then at the end of 2018 they changed the ESTA form to now ensure what you enter into the Given Name box matches your passport. They also provided updated instructions, pop-ups, etc to tell people this. However, back in early 2019 people were assuming the old rules still applied and therefore purposefully left out their middle name. Because that's what they did the last time they filled in the ESTA and they hadn't realised there were new instructions. Some of us pointed out the rule and instructions had changed. The weird thing is, before the change was made, some people were mistakenly including their middle name because they thought the Given Name box was supposed to match their passport and hadn't seen or read the instructions telling them to remove their middle name. This change should have made things clearer - and maybe it did. Maybe there are less people making mistakes now than previously? We don't know! I also wonder whether people fill in the "City of Birth" box correctly? Do they enter the closest city to where they were born? Or do they enter what's stated on their passport whether it's a village, town, or city? Even though the box says "city" it doesn't actually mean you have to put a city in that box. When you click on the question mark it states what you should enter. Perhaps in the title above that box it should say "City/Town/Village of Birth" to make it clearer? I wouldn't be surprised if some people were filling in other parts of the form incorrectly. But, as we've seen with the Given Name field, for parts of the form it doesn't matter if you get it "wrong". So we wouldn't know if there was an issue with other parts (not that there's an issue with getting the Given Name field wrong, as already stated).
__________________
DLC: Jun 1996 // DLP: Aug 2013 // WDW: Dec 1997 | Feb 2000 | Mar 2001 | Feb 2006 | Oct 2010 | May 2012 | Aug 2014 | Apr 2016 | Apr 2023
~ Trip Report Indexes ~ Edited at 02:47 PM. |
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21 Jan 20, 03:13 PM |
#148
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All round good bloke
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Anyone on the dibb who has ever subscribed toe an ESTA middle name thread will know it normally results in heated discussion
I repeat my stand that whilst it may not be pragmatically correct to omit your middle name I am not aware of any travellers being declined entry yet because they committed their middle name. My ex is going to New York at easter and I did suggest because this is her first ESTA (all other previous USA travel involved filling out green I94W forms) she may want to add her middle name. Much as she is my ex I would want her to be declined boarding at LHR!
__________________
Fancy some light relief? Have a look at my Florida 2018 trippy here. No entrance charge and everyone is welcome |
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21 Jan 20, 03:17 PM |
#149
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VIP Dibber
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DVC - Animal Kingdom Lodge International Drive 2002, All Star Movies 2005, Renaissance at Seaworld 2008, Rosen Plaza & POFQ 2010, Saratoga Springs Resort 2012, Hotel New York DLP 2013, Rosen Plaza and Old Key West 2014, AKL, BLT & SSR July 2015, Crowne Plaza NYC, AKL, Cabana Bay, AKL Nov 2017, Crowne Plaza NYC April 2018, Rosen Plaza, AKL and GFV August 2018, Australia Nov 2018, RCI Cruise August 2019, Rosen Plaza, Pop Century August 2022 |
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