do you think exclusion works?

[ely3857]

Honestly I don’t know. I agree those excluded don’t benefit but there does have to be a line drawn for the sake of the rest of the class/year group.

There are alternatives, as mentioned above when the poster speaks about the box at their school, so it really should be a last last resort as a child causing serious issues in the classroom can be removed (subject to funding/staffing levels) so every option should be considered in depth first.

All children have the right to an education, that applies to those disrupting as well as those who are disrupted and we should never forget a child excluded from school is just that, a child in the eyes of the law.

[Floridafour]

No definitely not as we are ‘excluding’ those children that need us the most, you always have to look beyond the behaviour. However, you also have to consider the other 20 plus children in the classroom and this is why special units set up within the school are the way forward. We have one at my children’s school called ‘forward step’ and it works. Don’t even get me started on ‘isolation booths’ how can isolating a troubled child even begin to be the answer (unless they need removing for their or other students safety). Kindness, empathy, understanding, and being bothered are the rules I try and teach by 🙂

[Floridafour]

Originally Posted by smithlane

My kids school (secondary) have an external exclusion unit aka 'the box'! Students who would be suspended go in there for all their lessons and only let out for break and lunch which are at different times to the rest of the school. The length of time in there depends on what was done but can range from a day up to a month. Apparently works much better than sending the children home as like the head teacher says they'll just be watching the tv or playing computer games so hardly a punishment!
I do feel that for certain kids there are deep rooted issues resulting in their behaviour and no matter how many times you exclude them nothing will change. Seems that main stream education isn't the answer but its not that easy to just move them

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Sorry, but we are talking about chidren, human beings? I can’t believe that it’s called ‘the box’ that they are ‘let out’ only at lunch and breaks and their sentence can be up to a month. Is this really how low the level of understanding is about managing troubled behaviour in some of our schools ☹️

[smithlane]

Originally Posted by Floridafour

Sorry, but we are talking about chidren, human beings? I can’t believe that it’s called ‘the box’ that they are ‘let out’ only at lunch and breaks and their sentence can be up to a month. Is this really how low the level of understanding is about managing troubled behaviour in some of our schools ☹️

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I do agree with you but where do we draw the line? In all fairness it’s the children over the years that have nicknamed it ‘the box’, the official term is the internal exclusion building.
I don’t really know what the answer is but I don’t agree with sending children home for the reasons I said before. The police with sniffer dogs have been in the school a few times over the last couple of weeks as there have been rumours of students bringing in knives plus drugs so yes I do think that those children shouldn’t be able to mix with the school at break or lunch.
Having said that my son was in there for a day a few months ago as whilst playing football at lunch the ball went over the fence into an area where building work was being carried out. He was the idiot who volunteered to jump over the fence and get it but then was caught. Now I completely agreed with the teachers that he needed to be punished, the kids had been warned about the building work but I thought a detention would suffice rather than being internally excluded. He was completely mortified though and I hope it was enough to stop him doing anything to get himself in there again. I really don’t know what the answer is as it’s the same students in there all the time.

[Floridafour]

Originally Posted by smithlane

I do agree with you but where do we draw the line? In all fairness it’s the children over the years that have nicknamed it ‘the box’, the official term is the internal exclusion building.
I don’t really know what the answer is but I don’t agree with sending children home for the reasons I said before. The police with sniffer dogs have been in the school a few times over the last couple of weeks as there have been rumours of students bringing in knives plus drugs so yes I do think that those children shouldn’t be able to mix with the school at break or lunch.
Having said that my son was in there for a day a few months ago as whilst playing football at lunch the ball went over the fence into an area where building work was being carried out. He was the idiot who volunteered to jump over the fence and get it but then was caught. Now I completely agreed with the teachers that he needed to be punished, the kids had been warned about the building work but I thought a detention would suffice rather than being internally excluded. He was completely mortified though and I hope it was enough to stop him doing anything to get himself in there again. I really don’t know what the answer is as it’s the same students in there all the time.

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In al honesty I think schools are struggling to deal with some of the extreme behaviour as you say drugs, knives, teachers are not equipped to handle it and that’s no criticism as I’m a lecturer at a FE college myself. Long term exclusion is definitely not the answer and I think the in school units are the way forward but they have to be supported and promoted in the right way that way at least these young people are still in some form of education and daily routine 🙂

[smithlane]

Originally Posted by Floridafour

In al honesty I think schools are struggling to deal with some of the extreme behaviour as you say drugs, knives, teachers are not equipped to handle it and that’s no criticism as I’m a lecturer at a FE college myself. Long term exclusion is definitely not the answer and I think the in school units are the way forward that way at least these young people are still in some form of education and daily routine 🙂

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Absolutely agree. I live in Greater London so appreciate the higher than average levels of knife and drug crime than other areas of the country. It really is a worry bringing up teenagers in this area, I live not far from the knife attack that happened near Heathrow at the weekend. The answer must be for more funding with more training for teachers to deal with these types of students but the LEAs are strapped as it is

[duchy]

Originally Posted by Floridafour

No definitely not as we are ‘excluding’ those children that need us the most, you always have to look beyond the behaviour. However, you also have to consider the other 20 plus children in the classroom and this is why special units set up within the school are the way forward. We have one at my children’s school called ‘forward step’ and it works. Don’t even get me started on ‘isolation booths’ how can isolating a troubled child even begin to be the answer (unless they need removing for their or other students safety). Kindness, empathy, understanding, and being bothered are the rules I try and teach by 🙂

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Isolation as in desks with screened sides , like cubicals so the kids aren't distracted by other students and can't indulge in distracting behaviours. The units have a very high ratio of adults to students typically a mix of teachers and teaching assistants so with what is a lot of one to one attention it's hardly the rather dramatic "isolation booth" but a screened desk with its own PC , no distractions and one on one teaching.
I don't like terms like "the box" and I'd actually have kids tell me they didn't want to go back into the General school as they felt they'd learned better in the environment and without a class with expectations of how they'd behave . They do get the chance to engage one on one with the staff (and the other excluded students in breaks ) and what they have to say when every conversation isn't about their behaviour is illuminating.
It's almost like ... respite ,if done right.
It's expensive , but compared with just booting the kids out for a week or two for essentially a holiday to give the rest of the school a break (and I certainly understand how attractive that is with some kids ) it's a positive investment !

[duchy]

The internal units cannot be considered a cushy option by the kids or they don't work.
Yes the staff are strict, no chatting to other students except at break times, no disruption,no calling out but they are also very focused on the kids and their learning . Strict but fair . The "good" kids would be mortified to be sent there so that's a deterrent too .
I didnt understand the grumble "they are only let out at breaks" it's a classroom ... one that isn't open plan but nevertheless a classroom. (Are they perhaps imagining cells ? Lol ) My expectation is that ALL kids stay in classrooms except at Break times mainstream or exclusion .

[7SeasSailor]

It depends on your point of view. The rest of his class and his teachers are most likely glad when he is not at school because they manage to have some constructive uninterrupted time to do some work. Its the same as short prison sentences. They don't do much for the rehabilitation of repeat offenders but it gives the neighbours and the local area some rest.

[Omega1]

Interesting perspective on school exclusion.
bbc/news/av/educat...ng-knife-crime