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Old 25 Apr 22, 04:43 PM  
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#31
disneymike
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Originally Posted by Rizzoface View Post
100% bigoted - of course it is. Or they could say partner which is far easier for children at that age surely? But as you've already pointed out it doesnt really say that but have mentioned its been left "open" - i didnt really see that when reading it but comes down to interpretation for that part and could be closed with better wording if it were warranted.
let me be clear - its the age group im defending here and right of the parent to not want their kids to learn about this..YET.

Im afraid i didnt see any other replies mike so couldn't comment on anything else.

.
Indeed, I can only hope, for the sake of Florida's children that the actual implementation of it in practice is closer to what you believe its intentions are, rather than what I fear its intentions could be.
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Old 25 Apr 22, 04:48 PM  
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#32
jemrock
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Originally Posted by Nimbus View Post
Also what do you deem "inappropriate"? I agree that discussing sexual acts would be inappropriate but I would assume that's already covered by existing laws and legislation. I assume the current laws and standards in Florida already restrict the teaching of sexual education to those over a certain age. So there doesn't need to be any further restrictions.
I don't profess to be an expert on this particular bill so won't comment but following the conversation with interest! Just delurking to comment that there does seem though to be a general move towards teaching sexually explicit content to younger and younger age groups.

Just this week I've read about 'The Family Sex Show' - which is a publicly funded project in the UK aimed at ages 5+ and which I could see on their website encouraged activities such as googling images of animals masturbating, a song about touching the clitoris and making play-doh genitals - complaining about having to reduce the number of shows it's running after widespread protests about the lack of safeguarding.

I also read this morning that the Welsh government is being taken to court by parents after making classes on sex and gender education mandatory for ages 3+. Allegedly parents aren't able to withdraw their children or ask what's being taught - though I haven't checked that particular claim.

I was surprised about both the above as I would have assumed there would be restrictions on covering teaching material like that to these age groups.
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Edited at 04:51 PM.
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Old 25 Apr 22, 04:49 PM  
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#33
Rizzoface
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Gender identity..missed the identity off.
Boys and Girls implies a Sex not a gender. As you know, nowadays theres many genders.

The kids learn about sex when they are passed K3 classes. im sure discussion about gender identity happens at older classes.

talking about Husband and Wife mom and pop doesn't imply a sexual orientation. That challenge makes no sense?

Im not even going to get into your final comment since its clearly a gas lighting attempt.
Youve taken what is nowadays a complex issue and narrowed it down to just being gay or straight. last time i checked there are 63 genders and if you think a 5-8 year old can understand then that is your right as a parent to DECIDE...not a teacher.

Originally Posted by Nimbus View Post
So that means protecting them from any sexual orientation? Including being straight? That means any mention of "husband and wife" or "mother and father / mom and pop" should not be allowed? Because that implies a sexual orientation.

Same with "any sort of gender"? Any? So that means not mentioning anything to do with "boys" or "girls". It means not calling little Jane a "girl".

It would mean changing a lot of current educational material that does mention binary gender and straight sexual orientation.

Also what do you deem "inappropriate"? I agree that discussing sexual acts would be inappropriate but I would assume that's already covered by existing laws and legislation. I assume the current laws and standards in Florida already restrict the teaching of sexual education to those over a certain age. So there doesn't need to be any further restrictions.

Or do you mean it's inappropriate to be gay or lesbian but appropriate to be straight?
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Old 25 Apr 22, 04:53 PM  
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#34
Rizzoface
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When parents got wiind of what was going on it was inevitable.

i think in all this, the old saying of let kids be kids without over loading them is what they want the outcome to be.

Originally Posted by disneymike View Post
Indeed, I can only hope, for the sake of Florida's children that the actual implementation of it in practice is closer to what you believe its intentions are, rather than what I fear its intentions could be.
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Old 25 Apr 22, 04:57 PM  
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The preamble to the bill says it is an Act 'prohibiting classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity'.

Using the word discussion is pretty limiting. The teacher doesn't need to be instructing to fall foul of the act.
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Old 25 Apr 22, 05:00 PM  
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This is exactly what its all about Jem. There is a push for this and its just wrong at that age.
Parents rights are being dissolved ever so slowly.

for me, I don’t care what someone identifies as it doesnt bother me one bit. just understand if they have a sexually charged conversation with my child I will identify them as a punching pag.

Originally Posted by jemrock View Post
I don't profess to be an expert on this particular bill so won't comment but following the conversation with interest! Just delurking to comment that there does seem though to be a general move towards teaching sexually explicit content to younger and younger age groups.

Just this week I've read about 'The Family Sex Show' - which is a publicly funded project in the UK aimed at ages 5+ and which I could see on their website encouraged activities such as googling images of animals masturbating, a song about touching the clitoris and making play-doh genitals - complaining about having to reduce the number of shows it's running after widespread protests about the lack of safeguarding.

I also read this morning that the Welsh government is being taken to court by parents after making classes on sex and gender education mandatory for ages 3+. Allegedly parents aren't able to withdraw their children or ask what's being taught - though I haven't checked that particular claim.

I was surprised about both the above as I would have assumed there would be restrictions on covering teaching material like that to these age groups.
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Old 25 Apr 22, 05:17 PM  
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Originally Posted by Loftus View Post
The preamble to the bill says it is an Act 'prohibiting classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity'.

Using the word discussion is pretty limiting. The teacher doesn't need to be instructing to fall foul of the act.
Exactly, it is a badly worded and vague bill that tries to solve a problem that doesn't exist in Florida. It also does not just apply to the youngest years due to the addition of "or" age inappropriate.

It is right up there with the state government's latest ban on a large percentage of math text books as inappropriate with no examples given. The only ones left for younger years are published by one company!
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Old 25 Apr 22, 05:41 PM  
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Originally Posted by jemrock View Post
I don't profess to be an expert on this particular bill so won't comment but following the conversation with interest!
I must admit, I'm not an expert on the bill myself either. As such, I don't have a particular view on the bill itself, more just on what's being discussed here in this thread. Which, of course, might go down a completely different path to what the bill itself is actually trying to do.


Originally Posted by jemrock View Post
Just delurking to comment that there does seem though to be a general move towards teaching sexually explicit content to younger and younger age groups.
I agree that younger age groups do not need to be taught sexually explicit things nor be taught about the actual act of sexual intercourse. I'm a bit of a prude and so I think that sort of thing should be left until a child is over the age of 10 (IMO).

However, I have no issues with discussing gender identity nor the existence of different sexual orientations at a younger age. For example, I have no issues with a story book being used in a school where a child in that story might have two mummies, just as I don't have a problem with a story book where a child might have a mummy and a daddy.
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Old 25 Apr 22, 06:00 PM  
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#39
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Originally Posted by Rizzoface View Post
Gender identity..missed the identity off.
Boys and Girls implies a Sex not a gender. As you know, nowadays theres many genders.
Boys and Girls implies a gender.

Google's definition states: "gender: either of the two sexes (male and female), especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones. The term is also used more broadly to denote a range of identities that do not correspond to established ideas of male and female".

From wikipedia:
"Gender is the range of characteristics pertaining to femininity and masculinity and differentiating between them. Depending on the context, this may include sex-based social structures (i.e. gender roles) and gender identity. Most cultures use a gender binary, in which gender is divided into two categories, and people are considered part of one or the other (boys/men and girls/women); those who exist outside these groups may fall under the umbrella term non-binary. Some societies have specific genders besides "man" and "woman", such as the hijras of South Asia; these are often referred to as third genders (and fourth genders, etc.)".

Talking about boys and girls implies a binary gender system. If you are a "boy" then that is your gender identity.

You are correct that there can be many genders. Also people can identify as a different gender to the one they were originally labelled as (or "born as") or choose to change their gender, as and when they want. Or be genderless, or whatever the correct term is.

Stating that Jane is a girl or calling her "she" or "her" identifies her gender. It specifies her gender identity.

Originally Posted by Rizzoface View Post
talking about Husband and Wife mom and pop doesn't imply a sexual orientation. That challenge makes no sense?
Yes, it does. If you have a male husband and a female wife and they've had a child then it implies that they are straight and have a heterosexual relationship. Or, at least, they did. Whether they actually are heterosexual is another thing.

Originally Posted by Rizzoface View Post
Youve taken what is nowadays a complex issue and narrowed it down to just being gay or straight. last time i checked there are 63 genders and if you think a 5-8 year old can understand then that is your right as a parent to DECIDE...not a teacher.
I used gay and straight as two examples. I wasn't going to list all the possible sexual orientations nor all the various genders that people can identify with. I wasn't expecting all 63 genders (or however many there are) to all be discussed in the classroom. That's not my point and not the point of the bill.

My point was that you stated that you'd take any law that protects them from any sort of gender or sexual orientation. So that means you are against anything that mentions any of the 63 genders. Or discusses just 2 genders. You want them all prohibited?

That means, for example, that all discussions in the classroom must be genderless. So no mention of gender-specific pronouns like "he" or "she" then? Because that seems to be what you're asking for.
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Edited at 06:11 PM.
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Old 25 Apr 22, 06:05 PM  
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I do wait with bated breath when Disney make it their priority to take on the Chinese government and all their abuse they do religious minorities and also the oppressive lives lgbtq community have to tolerate. This will obviously come when they win in Florida
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