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Old 30 Mar 20, 05:29 PM  
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#81
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Originally Posted by Procrastinator View Post
That is not the choice though.

With ventilators the issue is supply, not running out of money to buy them.

Every one of us was dealt an ace card by the country we were born in. The majority were not.

A point i once heard about how to design a fair tax system which could be applied here. Design a system in which you can honestly say that if your place in the system was drawn at random you would consider the outcome fair.

80% of the worlds population live on less than $10 a day. Decide on the foreign aid budget of the UK and the west before you are drawn at random with a 4 in 5 chance.of being in a country on less than $10 a day. I bet most would be far more generous.

We are all some of the wealthiest people on the planet not because we are amazing, but simply because of luck. I personally don't think we should forget that.

But of course, each to their own.
The point I made earlier is that the lives of some of those 80% living on less than $10 a day could be eased by their own government if they properly distributed the nationís wealth within their country rather than squander millions on vanity projects for personal use or move it offshore as personal wealth.

Many of those living on less than $10 a day are at the mercy of corrupt governments. Does the west send in foreign aid to do the job these governments wonít ? If yes, how do we know the money will actually benefit those that need it ?

Resolve these issues and Iíd be all for sending foreign aid.
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Old 30 Mar 20, 05:48 PM  
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Originally Posted by mr-paul View Post
There is no 'our own' as far as I'm concerned. We are human beings. This is a global pandemic. We're all in this together.

There is no reason for us to stop foreign aid. It's a drop in the ocean.

There's no need to be selfish.
Can you tell us who is giving us aid ?
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Old 30 Mar 20, 05:56 PM  
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Originally Posted by blackbird View Post
Can you tell us who is giving us aid ?
What aid do we need? We are managing fine here. Have you ever been to Asia or Africa? Do you have any idea of how people live there?
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Old 30 Mar 20, 07:47 PM  
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Foreign aid could be distributed with surplus medicines and equipment manufactured here ,easier to trace on the ground, unlike cash
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Old 30 Mar 20, 08:51 PM  
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Originally Posted by ERICSMUM View Post
The point I made earlier is that the lives of some of those 80% living on less than $10 a day could be eased by their own government if they properly distributed the nationís wealth within their country rather than squander millions on vanity projects for personal use or move it offshore as personal wealth.

Many of those living on less than $10 a day are at the mercy of corrupt governments. Does the west send in foreign aid to do the job these governments wonít ? If yes, how do we know the money will actually benefit those that need it ?

Resolve these issues and Iíd be all for sending foreign aid.
Totally agree with the issue around corruption. But the 2 things are not mutually exclusive. And i am sure aid can be used to support people and ways that fight corruption.

And of course it isn't all going to work. Some will end up being stolen and wasted. But i bet a lot of it does a lot of good as well.

How do we know the impact / effectiveness? Well I am placing some trust in our government and civil service here. I am trusting them to consider that, try to measure the success or otherwise of donations and to learn from what they do.


But i personally don't mind a bit of my tax money being spent in this way.
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Old 31 Mar 20, 05:18 AM  
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Foreign aid is an odd one I donít see how people have an issue helping some poor people in say India have access to a toilet yet donít have a problem helping people in the same country that they live in have a furlough package or for a family not working get money fo sky tv is for example. I mean you donít know and are unlikely to meet either people is it selfish as you hope that the uk people will pay tax you benefit from I donít know.

I get the corruption but this goes on her speaking to someone at a Christian charity that does a lot for the poorer people in the uk they provide meals, food parcels and top up fuel meters, they give parents presents at Christmas to give to their kids and provide housing and furniture. I was told that they know that 8 out 10 people who take donít need it yet they think it better to help these 2 than not help anyone.
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Old 31 Mar 20, 07:42 AM  
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Originally Posted by Sew109 View Post
Foreign aid is an odd one I donít see how people have an issue helping some poor people in say India have access to a toilet yet donít have a problem helping people in the same country that they live in have a furlough package or for a family not working get money fo sky tv is for example. I mean you donít know and are unlikely to meet either people is it selfish as you hope that the uk people will pay tax you benefit from I donít know.
I suspect the problem may be twofold.The older among us have seen aid being given year on year for a half-century and yet the same appeals continue to come up for the same countries for the same reasons.
Secondly the recipient countries do not have the same priorities as us. To continue with your example of India, they have a space program and high-tech companies yet the infrastructure for their people is not being developed at the same pace.
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Edited at 08:41 AM.
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Old 31 Mar 20, 08:21 AM  
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Originally Posted by Procrastinator View Post
... How do we know the impact / effectiveness? Well I am placing some trust in our government and civil service here. I am trusting them to consider that, try to measure the success or otherwise of donations and to learn from what they do.


But i personally don't mind a bit of my tax money being spent in this way.
The way I look at it is this country has been sending foreign aid for decades but yet I donít see that much has improved for the Ďordinaryí people in most of these countries.

The amounts theyíve received over the past 40/50 years should have been enough to improve the infrastructure and living conditions, create jobs, healthcare and judiciary systems. Not to the standards of ďthe westĒ obviously but a good start.

I donít see much evidence of this, nor do I see that our government has efficient and effective measures and assessments in place to check that the benefits seen in some countries are commensurate with the vast sums they are given.

Sort this out and Iím more than happy for some of my taxes to help continue their development.

Edited at 08:23 AM.
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Old 31 Mar 20, 08:40 AM  
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Originally Posted by JohnD View Post
I suspect the problem may have is twofold.The older among us have seen aid being given year on year for a half-century and yet the same appeals continue to come up for the same countries for the same reasons.
Secondly the recipient countries do not have the same priorities as us. To continue with your example of India, they have a space program and high-tech companies yet the infrastructure for their people is not being developed at the same pace.
It does annoy me when people quote India having a space program there are two problems here firstly it is the intention of India to run it space program at a profit the same way as Russia does by launching satellites for third party nations.

Secondly Indiaís social system is complicated broken by religion, race and class there are huge numbers of people that are not seen as worthy by the government and many of the middle classes and above see them as hardly human and believe in many cases they have been bad in their previous life and reincarnated to this position.

In pre Mandela South Africa the government had wealth and wonderful lifeís and huge amounts of social money was spent on the rich and nothing on the poor. Should no aid have been given to the tribes or the townships ?

A child with no food is a child with no food regardless of a space program or a corrupt government and if we can do something to help change this we should.

This is not meant to be a dig at anyone as I just trying to show the situation from a different point of view.

Edited at 08:42 AM.
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Old 31 Mar 20, 08:48 AM  
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Originally Posted by Sew109 View Post
It does annoy me when people quote India having a space program there are two problems here firstly it is the intention of India to run it space program at a profit the same way as Russia does by launching satellites for third party nations.

Secondly Indiaís social system is complicated broken by religion, race and class there are huge numbers of people that are not seen as worthy by the government and many of the middle classes and above see them as hardly human and believe in many cases they have been bad in their previous life and reincarnated to this position.

In pre Mandela South Africa the government had wealth and wonderful lifeís and huge amounts of social money was spent on the rich and nothing on the poor. Should no aid have been given to the tribes or the townships ?

A child with no food is a child with no food regardless of a space program or a corrupt government and if we can do something to help change this we should.

This is not meant to be a dig at anyone as I just trying to show the situation from a different point of view.
I chose India to illustrate my point as you had already raised them. It simply illustrates that different countries place different priorities on what they chose to target.

Secondly, should Indias caste system not be treated in the same way as Apartheid in South Africa, by way of boycots and sanctions? That eventually had its effect on South Africa, although whether it was for better or worse long term still remains to be seen.
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