Virgin Atlantic refuse refund

[Bobbins]

Originally Posted by Thorpy

The point is that nobody cancelled the flight. Albeit there's not really much of a choice. The OP technically chooses not to travel because they know they won't be allowed in.

If you're not allowed into the US, during the pandemic or normal times, it's your problem, even if it's not your fault. That's where I think OP is at unfortunately. It's what we feared for our August trip at the start of the pandemic as we were booked with US carriers. We were lucky, they cancelled and refunded.

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I know it seems odd, as it's not Virgin's fault, but case-law on Frustration means it's basically tough luck on them.

These things are never black and white though. If it got to Court there's no certainty that previous rulings would apply.

I would think that it might be helpful for the customer that it's not a question of turning up in the US and not being allowed in - Virgin wouldn't allow them to even get on the plane at this end.

[Guest]

Originally Posted by YorkshireT

Contract is clearly frustrated as OP cannot take the flight due to unforseeable circumstances.

This offers basic guidance

gov.uk/government/public...on-and-refunds

Also read this:


theguardian/money/20...ds-coronavirus

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I think you are misunderstanding the guidance. OP taking the flight was not part of the contract. Obviously they wanted to travel, but they were not contractually bound to do so.

Frustrated contract comes into play when one of the parties is unable to complete their part of a contract. OP was certainly unable to travel, but they cannot claim frustrated contract because they were not contractually required to travel.

Virgin operated the flight so they completed their part of the contract unfrustrated.

Originally Posted by Bobbins

I know it seems odd, as it's not Virgin's fault, but case-law on Frustration means it's basically tough luck on them.

These things are never black and white though. If it got to Court there's no certainty that previous rulings would apply.

I would think that it might be helpful for the customer that it's not a question of turning up in the US and not being allowed in - Virgin wouldn't allow them to even get on the plane at this end.

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What case law? If there were such a case law on this (which at this point I am going to doubt very much) then lower courts are obliged to follow any precedent set in a higher court.

[madasahat]

typical virgin just take them to small clames court if the fco advise against flying then they have to give you a refund,

[Bobbins]

Originally Posted by Claudette

What case law? If there were such a case law on this (which at this point I am going to doubt very much) then lower courts are obliged to follow any precedent set in a higher court.

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Case law on Frustration - this is the standard reference: en.wikipedia/wiki/Krell_v_Henry

Someone booked a flat to view the Coronation.
Coronation was cancelled.
No fault of the person who owned the flat, but the contract was held, at both a lower court and at appeal, to be Frustrated.

[thealienwarrior]

Originally Posted by Bobbins

Case law on Frustration - this is the standard reference: en.wikipedia/wiki/Krell_v_Henry

Someone booked a flat to view the Coronation.
Coronation was cancelled.
No fault of the person who owned the flat, but the contract was held, at both a lower court and at appeal, to be Frustrated.

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As a layman, when reading just the Wikipedia entry on this court case, sadly not flying due to USA immigration restrictions would not equate to a frustrated contract.

The article stated, upon affidavits, the flat was understood to be rented for the sole purpose of watching the parade. Sadly I doubt OP could establish that Virgin would have known the flight was solely for the purpose of a holiday. If it was a package deal, then yes, but flights only, no.

There could be multiple reasons for someone to book a flight: holiday, business, family, etc.

I do feel sorry for OP that they could not go, however, if it was me, I would be thankful that Virgin are willing to give a voucher so not loosing out completely financially.

[Bobbins]

Originally Posted by thealienwarrior

As a layman, when reading just the Wikipedia entry on this court case, sadly not flying due to USA immigration restrictions would not equate to a frustrated contract.

The article stated, upon affidavits, the flat was understood to be rented for the sole purpose of watching the parade. Sadly I doubt OP could establish that Virgin would have known the flight was solely for the purpose of a holiday. If it was a package deal, then yes, but flights only, no.

There could be multiple reasons for someone to book a flight: holiday, business, family, etc.

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I said earlier these things are never black and white. If they were, they wouldn't end up in court.

In a civil court things are decided on the balance of probablities. I'd say the purpose is obvious in the case of a couple or family booking a flight to Florida. Also, for Brits, it doesn't matter what the purpose is - they can't go.

And it's not just US restrictions - USA is on the FCO's list too. OK, you can ignore that but it's not realistic for most people.

[Warkman58]

Originally Posted by Thorpy

The point is that nobody cancelled the flight. Albeit there's not really much of a choice. The OP technically chooses not to travel because they know they won't be allowed in.

If you're not allowed into the US, during the pandemic or normal times, it's your problem, even if it's not your fault. That's where I think OP is at unfortunately. It's what we feared for our August trip at the start of the pandemic as we were booked with US carriers. We were lucky, they cancelled and refunded.

We're also many months into this pandemic situation, such that there is a reasonable chance OP knew about the restriction when they booked the flights, clearly expecting it to clear up. If OP didn't book when restrictions were in place, many will have, expecting the restrictions to lift before they travel. If they don't it's your problem, whilst again not really your fault, as it is hard to claim a restriction that was present when you booked is unforseen. It's why we have nothing booked despite desperately wanting to go next year.

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That’s not how I interpreted the OP original pist, where they have been trying for months and months for a refund. As Virgin have only just cancelled flights for October, the inference I took from it is that the OP wanted to cancel hence the months and months of chasing a refund

[thealienwarrior]

Originally Posted by Warkman58

That’s not how I interpreted the OP original pist, where they have been trying for months and months for a refund. As Virgin have only just cancelled flights for October, the inference I took from it is that the OP wanted to cancel hence the months and months of chasing a refund

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But Virgin did not cancel the flight, it took place.

[Warkman58]

Originally Posted by thealienwarrior

But Virgin did not cancel the flight, it took place.

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Exactly. The OP chose not to take the flight. Just like the OP cancelling.
The OP shoukd look at their travel insurance

[Thorpy]

Originally Posted by Warkman58

That’s not how I interpreted the OP original pist, where they have been trying for months and months for a refund. As Virgin have only just cancelled flights for October, the inference I took from it is that the OP wanted to cancel hence the months and months of chasing a refund

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As per others, the flight flew, Virgin did not cancel. It's probably why they didn't refund for all these months... because they didn't have to and are desperate for money.