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Unread 25 Jan 20, 07:30 PM  
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#65
may
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Originally Posted by Posiesmum View Post
Id certainly agree with your identification of the main perk. Im retired now but taught for 30 years, mainly 16-19 sector. I really miss the students, they are funny, vulnerable, challenging and usually a joy. Its a great feeling when you hear of or meet a student who has gone in to do something amazing with their life, the best buzz ever to have been even a bit involved in creating who they are now. But the admin is crippling. Ive always thought the job itself is a bit like being in a 6 hour play, with very brief intervals, where you have to engage, entertain and hopefully educate 30 people all at the same time - truly performance art!
I think that's a brilliant description 🙂

Edited at 08:08 PM.
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Unread 25 Jan 20, 07:45 PM  
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#66
legallyblonde
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Originally Posted by may View Post
You've just inspired me to dig out something constructed by the head at a large inner city primary I did some supply in.
He was under pressure from parents because dwindling teacher numbers meant he was having trouble filling job vacancies appropriately.
He was also frustrated because honest attempts to discuss and alter the factors leading to the dwindling numbers were viewed as " a sore subject and frustrating for people in the private sector"
So one sleepless night he worked the problem out mathematically in a very rough manner.He wasn't claiming it was correct for every situation or even precise for his. It just served to illustrate the basic issue. I hope I'm copying it out accurately

A nominal average worker 9 - 5. half an hour for lunch, 7.5 hours a day, 37.5 hours a week, 46.4 weeks = 1740 hours often with the upper limit regulated by contract.

A nominal teacher in his large inner city primary school where children were present 8.40 to 3.30
Planning 1 hour
Preparation and brief meeting before school - 45 minutes
average face to face with children allowing for removal of 15 minute break, 1 hour lunch, and 10% PPA time - 5 hours
preparation etc in childrens lunch time 30 minutes
allowing an average class size of 27- marking of 1 piece of English, 1 piece of Maths and 1 other subject, allowing 2 minutes per piece, 2 hours 42 minutes
9 hours 57 mins a day, call it 10 hours, 50 hour week , 40 weeks, 2000 hours.

Teaching contracts have no upper limit as such, they specify that a teacher must do 1265 directed hours plus whatever else is needed so you will need to add in playground duties, a longer staff meeting weekly, parental queries, performance of curriculum lead role, parents evenings , report writing , after school clubs, residential visits, fundraisers etc.

Consequently 50 hours a week is possibly a low estimate for some teachers.

If that particular head could be perceived as being "so unhappy and hard done by" it might, be because there simply is a genuine problem, certainly the government thinks so and is trying to address it theguardian/educatio...o-retain-staff

In my opinion teaching has only one "tremendous perk" and that's being privileged to help develop the nation's children; who, I am happy to say, are frequently still blooming marvellous
I dont think you are comparing apples with apples here though in terms of the level of job. I certainly dont work 9-5 and most people of that level wont either. I suppose just like people have mis-conceptions about teachers (which you have righted here in this discussion), teachers also probably have mis-conceptions about other careers. Everyone always thinks the grass is greener I suppose!

Posiesmum - yes, I think that reward surely makes it all worthwhile.
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Unread 25 Jan 20, 08:17 PM  
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#67
magickate
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Both of mine missed 5 days in november, the 1st week back after the 1 week half term. One school fined me, one school didn't. Our choice, no big deal.
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Unread 25 Jan 20, 08:57 PM  
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#68
may
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Originally Posted by legallyblonde View Post
I dont think you are comparing apples with apples here though in terms of the level of job. I certainly dont work 9-5 and most people of that level wont either. I suppose just like people have mis-conceptions about teachers (which you have righted here in this discussion), teachers also probably have mis-conceptions about other careers. Everyone always thinks the grass is greener I suppose!

Posiesmum - yes, I think that reward surely makes it all worthwhile.
In fairness I can't really claim the comparison as mine, viable or not. I didn't create it and the person who did made it very plain that he wasn't making any claims of perfect accuracy.

I think it's self evident that people know more about the demands of their own field than they do about others. Consequently, I'm open to the idea that there may be significant amounts of other employees on pretty average wages who are expected to work potentally unlimited hours with no possibility of any additional financial advantage to their families .Just because I haven't met them it doesn't mean they aren't out there.

I think that what might be slightly different is that because everyone has watched teachers at work it might perhaps be more tempting for people to extrapolate from their limited encounters and assume that they know more than they do ?
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Unread 25 Jan 20, 09:59 PM  
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#69
Jorgebear
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Responding to the ops original post... not getting into the debate.

We are going to Florida in May, this will be two weeks out of school for all my children. Being in Scotland there is no likelyhood of any fine however the childrens absence will be likely unauthorised however it will likely be their only absence from school. Two of my children are in primary my third is at secondary however I have no concerns taking them out of school. The emotional and wellbeing benefits to all of us and the additional collective experiential benefits far outweigh to me any missed school learning opportunities. I do not believe my childrens education will be impacted significantly by this ( and for us it absolutely is) once in a lifetime family holiday which we could not afford during a school holiday period. My childrens schooling is over 11 years, 2 weeks out is not going to impact their overall learning.
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Unread 26 Jan 20, 02:30 AM  
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#70
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The problem with that comparison is that it compares one persons basic/minimum hours with anothers real hours, including all extras. That isnt realistic or fair.
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Unread 26 Jan 20, 05:22 AM  
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#71
Sew109
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Originally Posted by legallyblonde View Post
I dont think you are comparing apples with apples here though in terms of the level of job. I certainly dont work 9-5 and most people of that level wont either. I suppose just like people have mis-conceptions about teachers (which you have righted here in this discussion), teachers also probably have mis-conceptions about other careers. Everyone always thinks the grass is greener I suppose!

Posiesmum - yes, I think that reward surely makes it all worthwhile.
In my post it clearly states that my sister used to be a Sales manager, one of my cousins works as a DBA now my sister in law used to be an HR manger they all think being a teacher is tougher than their work in the private sector. Please dont think that they dont prefer teaching the satisfaction they get is far greater.

Can I ask what you do for a living ?
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Unread 26 Jan 20, 08:39 AM  
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#72
legallyblonde
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Originally Posted by Sew109 View Post
In my post it clearly states that my sister used to be a Sales manager, one of my cousins works as a DBA now my sister in law used to be an HR manger they all think being a teacher is tougher than their work in the private sector. Please dont think that they dont prefer teaching the satisfaction they get is far greater.

Can I ask what you do for a living ?
I was referring to Mays post about the comparison with hours.

I think you can probably guess what I do for a living. 😬

Edited at 09:05 AM.
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