Redundancy

[Guest]

Originally Posted by tspill

You need to be absolutely clear here on the outcome you want. The last thing you want is a whole load lf pain and stress and not get what you want.

While technically, everything that has been said above about redundancy is true in terms of structure and rules. However is is very simple to manipulate (happens in pretty much every redundancy situation). In which case you will achieve little.

Say you get to stay as a result - will you really want to work in the environment following the "trouble" you might cause?
What result do you want here?

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I hope that my own comments have come across in the context I meant them. I think it would be extremely easy for the company to remove OP / OP's position if that is what they want to do. They can say we don't need a manager anymore for such a small team; that is all it requires. Then they can release a new structure chart to reflect the change - no need for this scoring exercise which is incorrect process when the employees are in non-equivalent roles.

If the process is not carried out correctly, then it is technically unfair dismissal and OP has rights. Reinstatement is rarely the outcome from an unfair dismissal case, but they may have a claim to some lost earnings within reason.



OP, three years is fine.

[tspill]

Originally Posted by Claudette

I hope that my own comments have come across in the context I meant them. I think it would be extremely easy for the company to remove OP / OP's position if that is what they want to do. They can say we don't need a manager anymore for such a small team; that is all it requires. Then they can release a new structure chart to reflect the change - no need for this scoring exercise which is incorrect process when the employees are in non-equivalent roles.

If the process is not carried out correctly, then it is technically unfair dismissal and OP has rights. Reinstatement is rarely the outcome from an unfair dismissal case, but they may have a claim to some lost earnings within reason.



OP, three years is fine.

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I agree, they need to carry out the process properly. I guess all I am saying is for the OP to be careful here. Fighting something like this can be incredibly stressful even when you are in the right. The OP needs to work out what they want here. They need to read between the lines to understand what the company leads really want.

I went through a redundancy myself last year - though for me, I volunteered.

It's a horrible situation.

[Lisa-72]

I originally had said no to volunteering and would have liked to stay. I did love my job and my staff I worked with.
I want the process done fairly and properly, we’re all on tenderhooks worrying about what’s going on. I care deeply about my 2 staff.
Even if I’m not chosen I know this will have to happen again and it may not be voluntary-although where’s the incentive this time?
I am looking for something else whatever the outcome.
It’s taken 3 years to rebuild my self confidence and self belief and now I feel I’m back where I started.
The employer is a joke, we even have to provide our own toilet rolls!
If I’m chosen then I will go but I will look at a case of unfair dismissal with ACAS.

[Guest]

Originally Posted by tspill

You need to be absolutely clear here on the outcome you want.

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This is very good advice from tspill

If you'd be happy to leave (because you think it would be a bad place just destined to ultimately fail or because your skills are in demand and getting a new job is easy) then I'd be taking a different tack...

Go to them and offer to take voluntary redundancy for 3/6/12 months pay and leaving that afternoon.

Ultimately you'll get more this way than hanging on unless the job is so great you really want to do that and nothing else

[Lisa-72]

For VR I presume that there should be a financial incentive but they are only giving us garden leave from 30.1.20 and our statutory redundancy pay in February’s salary.
To me that’s no incentive as presumably when the work dries out completely we’ll be looking at compulsory redundancy.

[Guest]

Originally Posted by Guest

This is very good advice from tspill

If you'd be happy to leave (because you think it would be a bad place just destined to ultimately fail or because your skills are in demand and getting a new job is easy) then I'd be taking a different tack...

Go to them and offer to take voluntary redundancy for 3/6/12 months pay and leaving that afternoon.

Ultimately you'll get more this way than hanging on unless the job is so great you really want to do that and nothing else

See more...

I think volunteering for redundancy with a demand for 3/6/12 months pay is not realistic. Employers can make people redundancy at any time if that is what the business requires, there is no reason whatsoever that they would need to consider such a request. Seeking volunteers is not usually in the organisations interests anyway, to me it indicates a management that wants to avoid harder conversations.

Originally Posted by Lisa-72

For VR I presume that there should be a financial incentive but they are only giving us garden leave from 30.1.20 and our statutory redundancy pay in February’s salary.
To me that’s no incentive as presumably when the work dries out completely we’ll be looking at compulsory redundancy.

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Ii don’t understand this offer. Gardening leave from 30.1.20 until when, until the end of February?

I do not think there is any need to offer a financial incentive for voluntary redundancy. In fact modern thinking is that voluntary redundancy is the worst type of redundancy for the employer as they are more likely to lose their most talented people (as these are the ones that are more likely to volunteer, knowing they will find another role more quickly).

I have always worked in places that have enhanced redundancy payments, but if your company does not have this, I don’t really see that you are in any position to negotiate it as they can make redundancy compulsory anyway.

I think you need to decide do you want to ride it out or not and then push to ensure there is a proper process.

[scouser]

Originally Posted by aitchieaitchie

They will use any criteria and score how they like and if you challenge it they will just say, well that's your opinion. This happened to my DH last summer, he was the most experienced, older, last in and they got rid of all the over 30s, and kept all the young ones with not alot of experience between them. If they want you gone, they will manipulate scoring to keep their jobs, trust no one you work with, they are all out to score more than you. Hope it works out ok and you find something new soon.

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Spot on and so true unfortunately.

[Stu]

closed at request of Thread Starter