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Old 23 Sep 20, 09:42 PM  
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Ritz
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Sweden on course for zero increase in deaths

Compared to previous years up to 30/8

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Old 24 Sep 20, 12:20 AM  
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shirley
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Im off to read up about their approach, seems to have been very successful x
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Old 24 Sep 20, 05:54 AM  
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Mickie
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Originally Posted by shirley View Post
Im off to read up about their approach, seems to have been very successful x
With the 15th worse death rate in the world only slightly behind the UK, US and Italy there are probably better approaches to check out first.
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Old 24 Sep 20, 06:35 AM  
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YorkshireT
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Originally Posted by Mickie View Post
With the 15th worse death rate in the world only slightly behind the UK, US and Italy there are probably better approaches to check out first.
I think OP is making the point overall deaths are not up. Yes, there are obviously people marked as dying from Corona- how many died with Corona but how many of these would have died in the 12 month period anyway? And if there were low deaths last year from flu like there were many other places that would have impacted (dry tinder theory).
I’ve no idea if the charts above are sound as I have not looked, but to just dismiss the point without looking doesn’t seem to make sense.
Looking at the chart my criticism would be that we will get a higher proportion of annual deaths as we go into winter normally and so we have 3 months of much higher usual seasonal death rates coming up, and there will then be the knock on next year.
However that does not mean Sweden’s approach has been a failure. It may be the most successful approach of all- we will not know until the end. Carl Heneghan actually thinks the UK has now switched to a Sweden like approach (nibbling at the edges restrictions rather than blunt lockdowns)- whether they will stay this way I’m sceptical, but hope so as lockdowns kill and ruin.
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Old 24 Sep 20, 07:25 AM  
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Andy C
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Originally Posted by YorkshireT View Post
I think OP is making the point overall deaths are not up. Yes, there are obviously people marked as dying from Corona- how many died with Corona but how many of these would have died in the 12 month period anyway? And if there were low deaths last year from flu like there were many other places that would have impacted (dry tinder theory).
I’ve no idea if the charts above are sound as I have not looked, but to just dismiss the point without looking doesn’t seem to make sense.
Looking at the chart my criticism would be that we will get a higher proportion of annual deaths as we go into winter normally and so we have 3 months of much higher usual seasonal death rates coming up, and there will then be the knock on next year.
However that does not mean Sweden’s approach has been a failure. It may be the most successful approach of all- we will not know until the end. Carl Heneghan actually thinks the UK has now switched to a Sweden like approach (nibbling at the edges restrictions rather than blunt lockdowns)- whether they will stay this way I’m sceptical, but hope so as lockdowns kill and ruin.
We are. The Sweden approach is to impose a set of restrictions that will reduce spread and hold to it in the longer term.

You incur greater deaths and economic impact than otherwise (as it takes longer for the deaths and impact to reduce, this the death rate in Sweden is ten times what it has been in its neighbours and the economic impact is worse than those around it who went for a lockdown - and Stockholm (the only really population-dense area in the country) has had a worse per-capita death rate than even London).

But, hopefully, people stick to the restrictions you do have. You do, unfortunately, have journalists trying to claim that Sweden has no restrictions and no damage (as if by some magic that we could copy if we did away with restrictions - while our recent level of restrictions has been similar to Sweden’s) or even trying to falsely claim they’ve somehow leaped to herd immunity.


One worrying sign, though is this:

independent/news/w...g-b551674.html

(Stockholm is looking at a local lockdown due to a recent increase in infections)
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Old 24 Sep 20, 07:39 AM  
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A big cultural difference between Sweden an UK is that Swedes are much more ”state following”, ie if the government tells you to do something, you do it. When I grew up in Sweden, we were all eating 6-8 slices of bread per day because that is what the public health office told us to do. That is why having just guidelines and instructions work - no need to have lockdowns or introduce laws.
In the uk however, we are not so ”following” and because of other factors like demographics (Sweden has one of the highest % of single households globally) and population density (apart from in big cities like Stockholm) we couldnt replicate what Sweden do.
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Old 24 Sep 20, 07:43 AM  
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Around all of this, I'm really not sure there is anything more utterly distasteful than the "they would have died anyway" line that people use, or get very close to implying.

Disgusting IMO.
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Old 24 Sep 20, 07:52 AM  
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Originally Posted by Bozza View Post
Around all of this, I'm really not sure there is anything more utterly distasteful than the "they would have died anyway" line that people use, or get very close to implying.

Disgusting IMO.
What I find discussing is people dismissing people who have genuine concern world wide of where will I find the money to keep a roof over our heads, is there enough food for myself and my family do we heat or eat. These are people main concern.
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Old 24 Sep 20, 08:05 AM  
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Ritz
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Originally Posted by Bozza View Post
Around all of this, I'm really not sure there is anything more utterly distasteful than the "they would have died anyway" line that people use, or get very close to implying.

Disgusting IMO.
Unfortunately the only certain thing in life is death.
People don't like to think or discuss it but 1000s die every day. Currently covid only makes up 1% of deaths.
Covid.

It's sad to know people die early from lots of preventable causes, do we stop our way of life to reduce all these?
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Old 24 Sep 20, 08:12 AM  
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We will all die eventually, so what timeframe is acceptable?
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