Very disappointed in David's

[gavvy]

The rumour on the other site is David's may go bust over this, hes in a very awkward situation. I was thinking of trying to rent out my banked points with him but am thinking twice now.
I assume that as you pay via pay-pal, UK charge backs would be useless as would section 75, you would have to depend on pay pals system which is unregulated.

If FCO advice not to travel is still in force in September and you have disruption cover then you could try claiming on insurance?

[Bellasmummy]

Originally Posted by gavvy

The rumour on the other site is David's may go bust over this, hes in a very awkward situation. I was thinking of trying to rent out my banked points with him but am thinking twice now.
I assume that as you pay via pay-pal, UK charge backs would be useless as would section 75, you would have to depend on pay pals system which is unregulated.

If FCO advice not to travel is still in force in September and you have disruption cover then you could try claiming on insurance?

See more...

We made our payments via credit card.

[YorkshireT]

Originally Posted by Dr.JumbaJookiba

The renter has a contract with David and the owner has a separate contract with David I thought?

Massive 200 page discussion on the big US board, David looks to be in deep trouble to me he is being hit with CC charge backs now.

See more...

I’ve had a look back to my rental in 2016 where I rented it some points.

A renter has a separate agreement with David’s whereby the renter agrees to certain things with David’s (like not to sell, to honour the agreement etc- which would be frustrated in this scenario). This is not an agreement to rent the points to a distinct customer, but an agreement with David’s to offer points for rental generally. The customer in our jurisdiction would struggle to enforce anything in that agreement against the renter.

There may be a similar agreement between David’s and the rentee but this is probably like the renter one- a basic wrapper for the agency (intermediary) aspect reminding them to take out insurance, it is not refundable etc.

Both (I anticipate, the renter one certainly does) just states that David’s are acting as an intermediary - an agent. Assuming he is an agent, then he is probably not responsible in law directly for the bulk of the money but there may be a case in English law he is responsible for returning the bit he has. However this is highly complex legally.

When a customer rents, assuming it’s still the same as it was when I last did it in early 2017, a rental agreement is then produced between the renter and the rentee. This states that the rentee has been advised to take out insurance, that the rental is final etc.

So as an owner you definitely do have a contract directly with the rentee. In English law it is then possible to argue that this is frustrated and some if not all the money should be returned.

Interestingly there was no jurisdiction clause in either contract so it may be possible to pursue both David’s and the renter through the UK courts, but average person would struggle (have to get permission to serve out of jurisdiction etc).

As an alternative one could try a credit card chargeback, if it didn’t work.

I actually feel for David’s as they were an extremely well thought of company and I understand they have been trying to do the right thing and give vouchers, even though they are not the renter so to speak.

Maybe OP can get it shifted if she gets someone more engaged from David’s and perhaps says contract is frustrated and the renter and David’s have some responsibility to refund. OP could turn up the heat so to speak with threats of chargeback etc if David’s do not help.

Chargeback may be successful anyway as that is not based on any legal principle and depends on whether Davids would even object. Seems OP would prefer it moved if possible though.

NB the above is not legal advice, just my personal musings, OP would need legal advice which would cost more then the rental night to get all the correct legal details.

[Helenr]

As a renter can I ask a question they do go bust.

I received part payment at the time I booked the room, David’s hold on to the other part until checkin.

If they go bust, my contact with David’s will not be honoured, yet the person renting the points paid in full.

Where do I stand, or an I supposed to take it on the chin?

I am actually in direct contact with the person renting as David’s refused to contact them to ask if they wanted to change dates or cancel (and be refunded), I said if they decide by end July (when my points need banking) I am happy to help, beyond that I lose my points so would not be in a position to help (unless they can rebook before Nov 30th, and availability is limited).

[arielrocks]

Originally Posted by Helenr

As a renter can I ask a question they do go bust.

I received part payment at the time I booked the room, David’s hold on to the other part until checkin.

If they go bust, my contact with David’s will not be honoured, yet the person renting the points paid in full.

Where do I stand, or an I supposed to take it on the chin?

I am actually in direct contact with the person renting as David’s refused to contact them to ask if they wanted to change dates or cancel (and be refunded), I said if they decide by end July (when my points need banking) I am happy to help, beyond that I lose my points so would not be in a position to help (unless they can rebook before Nov 30th, and availability is limited).

See more...

You would lose the 30% unless they use your points for another reservation, and again, may get in on the date of check in.

[EmmaBolan]

Originally Posted by Dr.JumbaJookiba

The renter has a contract with David and the owner has a separate contract with David I thought?

Massive 200 page discussion on the big US board, David looks to be in deep trouble to me he is being hit with CC charge backs now.

See more...

I'm going to try the chargebacks option if I don't get any further with the, I'd rather not do that but if they aren't willing to budge or even consider helping me out then I have no option. My Nana paid half the money towards it, I can deal with loosing my half but no way will I let her loose half the money, I just couldn't live with myself

Originally Posted by Tinkerbell 1

I agree with Yorkshire T, I also said if my renters could not reuse my points and I could re-rent them I would refund.

As you say no one could foresee this and I feel sorry for all involved. I hope you get it sorted.

See more...

Absolutely, no-one knew this was going to happen. It's such a shame that some companies are being so difficult, we'll certainly remember the ones who helped and who didnt!

Originally Posted by MrsBrown

What date in February and what room type, could be worth a check to see if they have availability first?

See more...

Anytime between the 20th February and about the 2nd March 2021.

Originally Posted by gavvy

The rumour on the other site is David's may go bust over this, hes in a very awkward situation. I was thinking of trying to rent out my banked points with him but am thinking twice now.
I assume that as you pay via pay-pal, UK charge backs would be useless as would section 75, you would have to depend on pay pals system which is unregulated.

If FCO advice not to travel is still in force in September and you have disruption cover then you could try claiming on insurance?

See more...

Oh gosh that panics me even more! I could try with the insurance again but they aren't being very helpful so far either

[EmmaBolan]

Originally Posted by YorkshireT

I’ve had a look back to my rental in 2016 where I rented it some points.

A renter has a separate agreement with David’s whereby the renter agrees to certain things with David’s (like not to sell, to honour the agreement etc- which would be frustrated in this scenario). This is not an agreement to rent the points to a distinct customer, but an agreement with David’s to offer points for rental generally. The customer in our jurisdiction would struggle to enforce anything in that agreement against the renter.

There may be a similar agreement between David’s and the rentee but this is probably like the renter one- a basic wrapper for the agency (intermediary) aspect reminding them to take out insurance, it is not refundable etc.

Both (I anticipate, the renter one certainly does) just states that David’s are acting as an intermediary - an agent. Assuming he is an agent, then he is probably not responsible in law directly for the bulk of the money but there may be a case in English law he is responsible for returning the bit he has. However this is highly complex legally.

When a customer rents, assuming it’s still the same as it was when I last did it in early 2017, a rental agreement is then produced between the renter and the rentee. This states that the rentee has been advised to take out insurance, that the rental is final etc.

So as an owner you definitely do have a contract directly with the rentee. In English law it is then possible to argue that this is frustrated and some if not all the money should be returned.

Interestingly there was no jurisdiction clause in either contract so it may be possible to pursue both David’s and the renter through the UK courts, but average person would struggle (have to get permission to serve out of jurisdiction etc).

As an alternative one could try a credit card chargeback, if it didn’t work.

I actually feel for David’s as they were an extremely well thought of company and I understand they have been trying to do the right thing and give vouchers, even though they are not the renter so to speak.

Maybe OP can get it shifted if she gets someone more engaged from David’s and perhaps says contract is frustrated and the renter and David’s have some responsibility to refund. OP could turn up the heat so to speak with threats of chargeback etc if David’s do not help.

Chargeback may be successful anyway as that is not based on any legal principle and depends on whether Davids would even object. Seems OP would prefer it moved if possible though.

NB the above is not legal advice, just my personal musings, OP would need legal advice which would cost more then the rental night to get all the correct legal details.

See more...

When I've looked back over my contract, it is with the renter so I have the name of the person who owns the points but that is all. I think I am going to insist that they put me in contact with her or ask her to get in contact with me.

Chargeback is looking like an option for us and actually chatting to my Mum last night you can do this with debit cards - not all banks do it but apparently Martin Lewis was talking about it on a COVID special show the other week.

I do really appreciate all your advice, I have gone back to them already with one email so waiting for their response and if it's not helpful I'll be threatening some of the above I don't like getting nasty with companies, especially in times like this but I'm sure if they were in my position they'd feel exactly the same as I do about my holiday

[Tweety1]

Originally Posted by Helenr

As a renter can I ask a question they do go bust.

I received part payment at the time I booked the room, David’s hold on to the other part until checkin.

If they go bust, my contact with David’s will not be honoured, yet the person renting the points paid in full.

Where do I stand, or an I supposed to take it on the chin?

I am actually in direct contact with the person renting as David’s refused to contact them to ask if they wanted to change dates or cancel (and be refunded), I said if they decide by end July (when my points need banking) I am happy to help, beyond that I lose my points so would not be in a position to help (unless they can rebook before Nov 30th, and availability is limited).

See more...

I wish you were my owner . I have rented from David’s (Aug) highly unlikely we will be going so I have contacted David’s to see if the owner can move it as I’m aware of on here deadlines. Emailed weeks ago and just got an email back to say they take everyone’s email in date of departure order which I get but this time lapse could be the difference in being able to move the points to next year. I paid on PayPal via a cc so now not even sure if I have any protection. I too feel for David’s but I don’t want to loose £1k in the process

[Br'er Bear]

Originally Posted by Tweety1

I wish you were my owner . I have rented from David’s (Aug) highly unlikely we will be going so I have contacted David’s to see if the owner can move it as I’m aware of on here deadlines. Emailed weeks ago and just got an email back to say they take everyone’s email in date of departure order which I get but this time lapse could be the difference in being able to move the points to next year. I paid on PayPal via a cc so now not even sure if I have any protection. I too feel for David’s but I don’t want to loose £1k in the process

See more...

Might be worth looking at the following and consider opening a PayPal dispute in the Resolution Centre that's if you are close to 180-days from when you made payment. Otherwise you'll loose that option if you wait too long.
paypal/uk/smarthelp/...-refund-faq406

And while the following is for flight refunds it does have a short paragraph on PayPal flight refunds which shows they do refund.
which/news/2020/04...y-credit-card/

[Tweety1]

Originally Posted by Br'er Bear

Might be worth looking at the following and consider opening a PayPal dispute in the Resolution Centre that's if you are close to 180-days from when you made payment. Otherwise you'll loose that option if you wait too long.
paypal/uk/smarthelp/...-refund-faq406

And while the following is for flight refunds it does have a short paragraph on PayPal flight refunds which shows they do refund.
which/news/2020/04...y-credit-card/

See more...

Will take a look thank you but all I want to do is move the reservation but it might get too late to do it or already might be! The issue I know is the
hotels will more than likely be open so mine isn’t priority plus it’s non refundable reservation but as another dibber said they would move it if they could and I bet a lot would it’s just you have to go through David’s who is swamped!