60 minute wait times reported for Magical Express

[dx4100]

I wonder why you think brits get such attractive deals to come over then if we represent such an unappealing offering to Disney? Why have the Brit come over when they can apparently have three American families spending more (your view point above) ? Doesn’t add up... they just wouldn’t temp brits over if it was even remotely true. They would discourage us.

I would suggest it’s because you are wrong in your analysis. (We get the food subsidised and not free - still pay tips (and that’s a lot if your doing deluxe plus the upgrade fee) and no doubt upgrade to all the stuff they push in the restaurants like the those fancy cups etc). I wonder how many table service meals the average American family have. The ones I know only do quick service if they don’t bring a pack lunch.

It similar to why high rollers get free hotel rooms in Vegas. It’s similar to why Manchester United wants that person from the Far East in that old Trafford seat rather than someone from Stretford. Disney know they are making the money back and then some because Brits on average out spend other visitors from other countries.

For every person like my mum there are more of me who can afford more.

[chmurf]

Originally Posted by dx4100

I wonder why you think brits get such attractive deals to come over then if we represent such an unappealing offering to Disney?

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well, because the UK is the second biggest international market for WDW, behind canada.
Brazil competes with the UK for second or third place (brazil was bigger a market than the UK back in 2015 before economic difficulties, and they now seem to be picking up speed for the last couple of years)

so, yes, as second (or third) biggest international market, the UK get some kind of attention

but, you need to remember that international market only represent 10% of the total market
and the UK represent just a fraction of that market (1% of the global market)


consider that the UK branch, aka disneyinternational aka disneyholidays, what we refer as disney UK) deal with all of EU as a market. since all of EU can benefit from the UK 14 days ticket and free dine, be it through the Irish branch where EU pay in euros. It's not just Brits

so, it's "normal" that the second (or third ) biggest international market is getting incentives , especially since, to come over to the US, we need to pay so much more for airfare than any US visitor would (and some do drive to save on the airfare) and Florida as a whole (not just disney) needs a way to draw international visitors, when there are so many other US destinations international visitors could choose from.

but, the thing remains, the UK (and EU) market is still very very small compared to the global WDW market.

we still make around 1% of the global market

we do get deals, because we're leading the international market, and losing the UK would mean losing a sizeable part of the international market, but don't overestimate our importance. Let's just be humble and take advantage of the perks we get, while we can get them.

[dx4100]

I am not over or under estimating anything. Just stating the facts.

In one post you say we are unimportant to Disney and in the next you correctly point out the importance of the British market to Disney. I think you are a little confused on the issue.

Its undeniable how important the British market is to Disney. You are also looking at percentage shares of the vistors like all men are equal, they are not all equal. International visitors do outspend the locals and thats why these foreign markets are important, as well as other factors like reinforcing the Disney brand world wide.

You seem to have some strange confidence issue around Disney, like you feel you need not rock the boat or offend them. You ask us "to be careful" and to be "humble". Its such strange language when you are basically a customer paying for a service.

I don't feel the need to be humble considering my last trip to Disney cost me over £16k and the next one is around the same level. Anything they gave me for free was well and truly paid back and then some in the end I don't feel humble - I feel a level of expectation and I think Disney generally do want to meet those expectations - its called good customer service which Disney is generally very good at.

I have to be honest - I have never really had cause to complain about anything Disney related really - I would if this bus issue hurts me but it hasn't yet either so at the moment - Disney is good for the money I guess - if not hard to justify going forward given the changing demands of what we want from a holiday.

[chmurf]

Originally Posted by dx4100

In one post you say we are unimportant to Disney and in the next you correctly point out the importance of the British market to Disney. I think you are a little confused on the issue.

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absolutely not
let me just take an image
If WDW was an ASDA supermarket, sure the Coca Cola company would be important ... to the soft drinks department, and ASDA would want Coke in the department, because if customers could not find that brand, they might shop elsewhere
But how important is it to the whole store, all departments accounted for ?
We are the Coke bottles and importance is relative.

Its undeniable how important the British market is to Disney. You are also looking at percentage shares of the vistors like all men are equal, they are not all equal. International visitors do outspend the locals and thats why these foreign markets are important, as well as other factors like reinforcing the Disney brand world wide.

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Brits have Disneyland Paris at a stone's throw ... it's fairly understandable WDW has to offer deals to have them come across the pond.

The disney brand worldwide does not need this ... the most profitable is, and will remain, the disney princesses franchise
now, you'd be amaze at how many people in the EU (while UK is still part of it) do not know there are theme parks in florida and in california, or confuse both locations.

and you're right, all men are not equal

when you pay your 14 days ticket £419 all inclusive, that's $550
a US family, will get a 4 days hopper ticket (no memory maker, no waterparks, no crazy golf) for that price. And a US guest will on average visit of 4 days. So comparison is valid.

meaning that, over the course of 2 weeks, while Disney has made $550 out of you on tickets, they have made over $2000 on tickets from US visitors, for the same time period, for the same number of guests occupying the lines and causing wear and tear on equipment, facilities and rides, on any given day.

so basically, on tickets alone, disney is making 4 times more money, per individual, per day, on a US guest than they will on a Brit guest.

you need to spend $1500 more than those US families, to just to make up for the price difference of tickets, for just one guest in your party,
for a party of 4 Brits, they need to spend $6000 more during their stay, than the 4 US family visiting during the same 15 days, to just make up for the ticket price difference and earn disney more money than the "locals"

and that's just on tickets alone.

You seem to have some strange confidence issue around Disney, like you feel you need not rock the boat or offend them.

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if you had read some of my posts on other forums, you would not say that, and would have realised that I have absolutely no sympathy for disney, not anymore

You ask us "to be careful"

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In my very first post, I merely said to be careful not to judge on a picture, without context, without date. That's all.
In my opinion that's just common sense, and with all the fake news around, anyone should use common sense and not blindly believe what they have no evidence to build their opinion around, except what is, in the end "hearsay"

I don't feel the need to be humble considering my last trip to Disney cost me over £16k and the next one is around the same level.

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it's your absolute right to think so
no, you make it sound like you, and those who do like you, support, singlehandedly, the profits of disney, and without you, the multibillion company would be in trouble ...

well, reality check, when you spend £16k on a trip to the mouse, you don't even qualify as a "big spender",

a big spender, or a whale, is like that saudi prince who spends $800.000 in a single visit at WDW, or who celebrates his birthday at disneyland paris and throws a $19 millions party over 3 days for 60 guests.

I realise how ludicrous and pedantic it would be to show off how much I spend in comparison

I have to be honest - I have never really had cause to complain about anything Disney related really - I would if this bus issue hurts me ... (snip)

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I have ... big time ... and if you have read some of my posts on the Dibb ... My last disney stay was at the Polynesian village, club level, lagoon view, for a full week with park tickets. How much did I spend ? ... $0 not a penny, zilch, nada, nichts, rien du tout. It was all on the mouse, because how they have screwed up in the past ... and you will probably understand that, if they have compensated me with a $1100 a night hotel room for a full week (among other things I will not disclose) , it's not just because I have stood one hour in a DME line ... right ?

no, I don't give a damn about disney's, and I certainly won't care if I hurt their feelings. Fanboy ? I guess not. Maybe 10 years ago, not anymore, never again.

[dx4100]

I think you are missing other factors in your analysis. You ignored key parts of my post and went back to macro focusing on single elements like ticketing.

Is there enough Americans who are wanting to stay onsite at Disney ? Those american families buying those 4 day hopper tickets are rarely staying onsite at Disney which would leave Disney World RESORT struggling to fill rooms. Are those Americans eating in the restaurants ? drinking in the bars ? shopping at Springs ? Of course some are, but many many don't. We know the 15 day Brits are and just through conversations with a lot of Americans the idea they are going to pay out of pocket on a $250 meal is laughable to a lot of them. - obviously others would and do but its the average that counts.

Your focusing on a few factors that mask a much bigger business model around international guests that doesn't apply quite as equally to our american friends - on average of course. The domestic market is much less likely to want to stay onsite. How many French people for example stay on site at the Paris park ?

I read a couple of books over the winter (2018) and they where going into the theme park industry and some of the biggest growth for the likes of Universal and Disney isn't through the films and other areas of business but in their resorts. I actually googled some number on this and there is something like 20% year on year growth going on in this area and this incredible numbers. This is why we have seen so much investment lately. Only so much of the growth is supportable from a domestic market and the international markets importance will only continue to grow to feed that growth.

In the end it isn't a us vs them argument is it really. Disney need both and no doubt value both.

[Nimbus]

It's worth remembering that WDTC Ltd (Disney's UK travel company) is a separate business to Disney's travel company over in the States. Yes, it's owned by Disney but it has it's own sales targets and profit targets to meet. Only 1% or 2% of visitors to WDW are Brits but 100% of WDTC Ltd customers are Brits (well, maybe not 100%, but most of them).

It's not about whether we are a big market for Disney in the States. It's about WDTC Ltd trying to attract more Brits to go to Disney World in Florida rather than going somewhere in Europe or elsewhere in the world. WDTC Ltd needs to appear to have better offers because selling a 2-week long haul holiday to Florida and an onsite stay at Disney is more difficult (because it's more costly) than a shorter 1 week in-country or European holiday. WDTC Ltd needs to attract more Brits regardless of what Disney in the US wants (although I'm sure the US division wants more British guests as well).

As for better deals, which better deals do Brits get that Americans don't? The US also gets free dining and free nights the same as we Brits do, albeit at different times of the year. The only "deal" I can think of that we get that the Americans don't is our 14-day and 21-day Ultimate tickets. The prices for these are good, relatively speaking, and these tickets exist to try and keep us on-site for a bit longer than we used to stay* (a lot of what Disney does is done to try and keep everyone on-site for longer). I am surprised the American Disney branch hasn't tried to do the same thing in the US and capture a few Americans on-site for longer. Personally, I don't see our 14-day and 21-day tickets as a "deal" as such - it's just our tickets are priced less than the closest equivalent American tickets.

(* the first few times I visited we only had 5 day tickets. The 14-day tickets are a relatively recent thing. Well, less than 15 years old anyway)

[dx4100]

I think you add in another interesting dynamic to the conversation.

WDTC isn't actually a LTD in its own right. Its a trading name / subsidiary of The Walt Disney Company. For all intent and purposes it is still Disney and not a separate company. So whatever strategy they have is one given to it by the bigger parent group. I don't think you can separate them out as some sort of separate entity like I often hear it spoke as.

[Nimbus]

Originally Posted by captain-codeye

I bet charging of parking for on-site guests is making a impact on the bus lines?

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Yes, I suspect more people are using the DME now than previously.

Of course, what this means is that the longer queues are due to there being significantly more people using the DME, not that the DME is any worse. Yes, you could argue that Disney should maybe have increased the numbers of CMs checking people in and directing folk to the correct bus lane (if the queues are before the check-in bit) or increased the number of buses (if the queues are after check-in) or something. That would require more investment, impacting profits. Perhaps Disney was waiting to see what impact charging to park onsite would have before increasing investment in the DME, to see whether it was required? There's no point in investing more in the DME if the numbers of guests using it only increased by a small amount.

A part of me does wonder whether Disney is considering getting rid of the DME? They may see it as an expense that isn't really needed. I suspect the same number of people would still visit and stay at WDW without it and Disney would save themselves a bit of money if they ditched it (= more profit).

[dx4100]

Virgin talking about running a train from the airport to Disney. If they was going to replace DME then I would imagine the train would be the go to option.

[Nimbus]

Originally Posted by dx4100

I think you add in another interesting dynamic to the conversation.

WDTC isn't actually a LTD in its own right. Its a trading name / subsidiary of The Walt Disney Company. For all intent and purposes it is still Disney and not a separate company. So whatever strategy they have is one given to it by the bigger parent group. I don't think you can separate them out as some sort of separate entity like I often hear it spoke as.

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It is a separate company. It is WDTC Limited. It's a subsidiary of the Walt Disney Company Limited which, in turn, is a subsidiary of the multinational Walt Disney Company. WDTC Limited is registered in London. It is separate to WDTC Inc.

I work for a multinational company. But actually I work for the UK limited company that's a subsidiary of the multinational company. The UK company has it's own CEO, profits, plans, roadmaps, strategy, and the like. The UK company even sometimes competes against other parts of the same multinational company (eg. we have competed against the French version of our company for various contracts in the past). But we are all part of the same overall company.

I suspect WDTC Ltd is similar.