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Old 31 Mar 20, 09:09 AM  
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#91
Sew109
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Originally Posted by JohnD View Post
I chose India to illustrate my point as you had already raised them. It simply illustrates that different countries place different priorities on what they chose to target.

Secondly, should Indias caste system not be treated in the same way as Apartheid in South Africa, by way of boycots and sanctions? That eventually had its effect on South Africa, although whether it was for better or worse long term still remains to be seen.
The question is not about the ills on which a county treats it’s people but about whether not the people who need help should be denied this because of the way in which their country treats them.

I think that perhaps a better way to treat aid is by not giving it to a corrupt or in efficient government but directly to charities who operate their or for projects managed by an entity whom is not the said government.

Edited at 11:15 AM.
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Old 31 Mar 20, 09:41 AM  
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Originally Posted by ERICSMUM View Post
The way I look at it is this country has been sending foreign aid for decades but yet I don’t see that much has improved for the ‘ordinary’ people in most of these countries.

The amounts they’ve received over the past 40/50 years should have been enough to improve the infrastructure and living conditions, create jobs, healthcare and judiciary systems. Not to the standards of “the west” obviously but a good start.

I don’t see much evidence of this, nor do I see that our government has efficient and effective measures and assessments in place to check that the benefits seen in some countries are commensurate with the vast sums they are given.

Sort this out and I’m more than happy for some of my taxes to help continue their development.
A few billion of foreign aid each year and comic relief is not going to have sorted out all the problems in the world even after 40 or 50 years. The UK took centuries to develop democracy, a judiciary and infrastructure.

But are things changing? Yes, but as you would expect it is slow going for such a large task.

en.m.wikipedia/wiki/Extreme_poverty

Trusting wikipedia here. But in 1990 there were 1.8bn in extreme poverty. In 2015 there were 800m.

Is it fast enough. Probably not. But is it going in the right direction - yes. Is the aid the UK gives contributing to this? Hopefully, but can't really prove it.

I also think the whole concept of aid needs to be thought through. On the one hand yes it is giving basic food aid to those starving. But I also think it is much more than that.

Where possible support the right programs and people to help generate economic growth.

Support programs and people that promote democracy.

Support education for all - the more educated they are the more likely they are to prosper and head down a democratic route.

Not everything will work and money will be lost along the way, but to not bother because they have had enough is just not the right approach imo.

And the why - well firstly they are fellow human beings. I doubt any of us would just walk past a starving person on the street, but we are happy to ignore it when it is out of sight and out of mind.

And secondly - this is in our self interest. Lifting the likes of Africa out of poverty and helping them develop economically would be a massive opportunity for the UK. As 1.2bn people become more economically active they will become the factories of the world - much like China used to be and then start to become consumers of the service industries that drive the UK.

These things will all take decades but they will pay dividends over time.
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Old 31 Mar 20, 11:22 AM  
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Originally Posted by Procrastinator View Post
A few billion of foreign aid each year and comic relief is not going to have sorted out all the problems in the world even after 40 or 50 years. The UK took centuries to develop democracy, a judiciary and infrastructure.

But are things changing? Yes, but as you would expect it is slow going for such a large task.

en.m.wikipedia/wiki/Extreme_poverty

Trusting wikipedia here. But in 1990 there were 1.8bn in extreme poverty. In 2015 there were 800m.

Is it fast enough. Probably not. But is it going in the right direction - yes. Is the aid the UK gives contributing to this? Hopefully, but can't really prove it.

I also think the whole concept of aid needs to be thought through. On the one hand yes it is giving basic food aid to those starving. But I also think it is much more than that.

Where possible support the right programs and people to help generate economic growth.

Support programs and people that promote democracy.

Support education for all - the more educated they are the more likely they are to prosper and head down a democratic route.

Not everything will work and money will be lost along the way, but to not bother because they have had enough is just not the right approach imo.

And the why - well firstly they are fellow human beings. I doubt any of us would just walk past a starving person on the street, but we are happy to ignore it when it is out of sight and out of mind.

And secondly - this is in our self interest. Lifting the likes of Africa out of poverty and helping them develop economically would be a massive opportunity for the UK. As 1.2bn people become more economically active they will become the factories of the world - much like China used to be and then start to become consumers of the service industries that drive the UK.

These things will all take decades but they will pay dividends over time.
In general, agreed. I am concerned, however, that China has already made such inroads into African investment and development and as such, we will be left with the crumbs.

To me, retaining foreign aid here in the UK for a LIMITED time to ensure that in the future there is a country capable of supplying aid again is worth considering.
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Old 31 Mar 20, 12:10 PM  
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Personally I would reduce the commitment over the next few years.
I would feed more money into the NHS. (Prevention is better than cure for any further similar outbreaks?)
I would further fund Social Care particularly for the elderly.
I would give government donations to help with Hospice Care.

I think we are likely to be giving £50billion in foreign aid over the next 4 years. Use half of that at home.

Stay well
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Old 31 Mar 20, 12:19 PM  
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Originally Posted by mr-paul View Post
Our government can continue to help those abroad with foreign aid, and can help those here in Britain. It's not an either/or situation. We can do both.
We can. But we shouldn't. Judge away.
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Old 31 Mar 20, 12:20 PM  
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Originally Posted by captain-codeye View Post
We give aid to India who can afford a space program

Keep it in the country and buy some more testing kits.
India also has a nuclear weapons program
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Old 5 Apr 20, 04:55 PM  
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Originally Posted by salmim View Post
Personally I would reduce the commitment over the next few years.
I would feed more money into the NHS. (Prevention is better than cure for any further similar outbreaks?)
I would further fund Social Care particularly for the elderly.
I would give government donations to help with Hospice Care.

I think we are likely to be giving £50billion in foreign aid over the next 4 years. Use half of that at home.

Stay well
The UK is missing out on around £70-£90billion a year in tax aviodance, tax evasion, errors and non payment. Perhaps getting that corrected would negate the need to cut everything else. Amazon for example paying the equivalent of around 3% corporation tax in the UK instead of the 19% that (almost) every other business has to pay.

There isn't a magic money tree, but there is a vast amount of uncollected tax that could make everyones life a little bit better.
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Old 5 Apr 20, 06:46 PM  
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Originally Posted by mr-paul View Post
Our government can continue to help those abroad with foreign aid, and can help those here in Britain. It's not an either/or situation. We can do both.
Absolutely.
It’s amazing where the money came from when there was a call to house those sleeping rough and indeed for the levels of support afforded to most of the country under recent government moves.
If there’s one thing travel has taught me ,is that the world over ,
people are people .We who post on this forum have the luck and it is only luck -by accident of birth ,to be born in one of the richest countries in the world .
We are largely privileged in global terms and should always continue to help those less fortunate if we can .

I
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