TUPE transfer

[Scotty]

Originally Posted by Claudette

Whether the change in location following the TUPE transfer would be a cause for you to claim constructive dismissal (or request redundancy) is a grey area. It would depend upon your existing contract and the distance you are being asked to move.

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I have already spoken about constructive dismissal.

Can I request a representative of occupational health be with me? As I said it's not the first year following tupe that I'm worried about - it's the organisational change that we have been told about the following year by which time we will have a new employer. If we were to be redeployed now at least we would be in the location we want to be not a possibility of being anywhere in a 50 mile radius of the new employer (up to 90 miles or 2 hour drive).
It may never happen but the uncertainty is awful.

[Guest]

Originally Posted by Scotty

I have already spoken about constructive dismissal.

Can I request a representative of occupational health be with me? As I said it's not the first year following tupe that I'm worried about - it's the organisational change that we have been told about the following year by which time we will have a new employer. If we were to be redeployed now at least we would be in the location we want to be not a possibility of being anywhere in a 50 mile radius of the new employer (up to 90 miles or 2 hour drive).
It may never happen but the uncertainty is awful.

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I am quite surprised you have been told you can have a colleague or a union rep, that is the norm for disciplinary hearings, but this is not one a disciplinary hearing. I am surprised anyone other than affected employees and employee representatives (which would include union reps or otherwise formally chosen representatives) are involved. But seeing as they have said you can bring a colleague, then I see no reason why you couldn't ask someone from OH to come along.

Whether there was a TUPE or not, there could be organisational change next year. To be honest, a new employer is unlikely to take on another undertaking and then leave it totally untouched. If you have an issue with the change of location, you need to decide and raise it now. But if your current contract states that you could be asked to work within a certain region and TUPE means a move within that region then you would not have a claim. If you have a fixed place of work that would be favourable but the move would still need to be deemed material for a claim to succeed.

[novocastrian]

Originally Posted by MOUSEMARSH

Under Tupe all your current agreements have to be continued, this includes pay, pension, sick pay etc

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not for ever though, as i understand there is a 2 year legal precedent (not a law) when changes can be made by harmonization etc

ive been tuped a good few times & things never stay the same .. same with most jobs business needs change etc etc

[tspill]

This may help the OP
gov.uk/transfers-takeove...ment-contracts

[MOUSEMARSH]

Originally Posted by novocastrian

not for ever though, as i understand there is a 2 year legal precedent (not a law) when changes can be made by harmonization etc

ive been tuped a good few times & things never stay the same .. same with most jobs business needs change etc etc

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One if the biggest problems we see us nobody wants to commit to anything and the rules seem so difficult to work out and enforce. Also contracts and companies seem to change before anyone can change anything. As a business we try and avoid at all costs!

[Scotty]

Thank you everyone, looks like this is one I may have to get my GP/ consultant involved in if it comes to it. If I was to be redeployed in the future a longer commute medically I wouldn't be able to do it on a daily basis. I guess I just have to sick it and see.

[Lumpy]

Even if you get the doctor or whoever involved whilst the company are obliged to make reasonable changes to assist you, if the company cannot do this and you cannot fulfill your contractual obligations they have the right to terminate your employment. Even disability rights only cover you up to a certain point.

[shack69]

If your current contract says you will be employed at ... and quotes an address then any change to that in the future would be something the new employer would need to discuss with you. Your current employer has no control over that and I'm really surprised they are even mentioning it to you. If you are really worried about this you could ask your currently employer to adjust you current contract to include a clause about change of office and they maybe willing to do that before the TUPE takes effects. In which case the new employer would have to maintain that or negotiate a change with you.
Take a read of this nidirect.gov.uk/articles/relocation-work and make sure you don't have a mobility clause in your contract.

But again this is only relevant when and if the new employer does notify you of a change of work location.

I have worked for companies who have paid staff for relocating as they wanted to retain them, plus they would adjust the working hours to allow travel outside of peak. But that is down to the employer and no legal requirement.

[Guest]

Originally Posted by shack69

If your current contract says you will be employed at ... and quotes an address then any change to that in the future would be something the new employer would need to discuss with you. Your current employer has no control over that and I'm really surprised they are even mentioning it to you. If you are really worried about this you could ask your currently employer to adjust you current contract to include a clause about change of office and they maybe willing to do that before the TUPE takes effects. In which case the new employer would have to maintain that or negotiate a change with you.
Take a read of this nidirect.gov.uk/articles/relocation-work and make sure you don't have a mobility clause in your contract.

But again this is only relevant when and if the new employer does notify you of a change of work location.

I have worked for companies who have paid staff for relocating as they wanted to retain them, plus they would adjust the working hours to allow travel outside of peak. But that is down to the employer and no legal requirement.

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I don't think that OP has had a conversation with their current employer yet and is perhaps speculating over what will be discussed. The current employer (transferor) has a legal obligation to consult, as does the new employer (transferee).

Obviously at some point, either the current or future employer will need to discuss work location. The article you reference seems to refer to a change of location but it is not relevant here as it does not refer to a TUPE situation for which there are different legal provisions.

Following changes to TUPE legislation in 2014, the change in location anomalies under prior law were addressed. Previously, a new employer could have been technically found guilty of unfair / constructive dismissal simply by virtue of having different business premises. This was deemed not fair on the transferee and so it was addressed in the latest TUPE legislation.

So as I have posted earlier, if OP has a fixed place of work, the "fairness" of a change in location, would depend on how material the change in location would be. There is no legislation to state what this is, it would be based on case law precedents.

Changing employees contracts whilst simultaneously entering TUPE related business transfer negotiations would be a deeply foolish thing for the current employer to do.

[Twentyyears]

To be honest and clear it is your current contractual terms that are protected. Both sides have a duty to consult and this will be done as per each company’s policy. It is most common that accompanying persons, for whatever reason, are usually a Union repo or co-worker.
So as others have said it is your current mobility clause that would carry over. If there isn’t one then there is nothing you can do or say in a year’s time.p, it will be what is deemed reasonable.
Think of it like this, if a business relocated you would have the choice to go or take redundancy, if on offer to you, if it was so far as to be unreasonable. At that point medical reports and views would be releasing to support your claim that travel would unreasonable.