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Old 27 May 19, 07:42 PM  
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#171
Lily8
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Originally Posted by ChrisS View Post
Hi SL - ultimately has to be your decision... bro is also travelling in July and decided to travel on ESTA's acquired early 2018, afore clarification of the ruling. Apparently DHS/CBP haven't begun travel doc enforcement and nobody knows if/when they will.





Recently read (can't remember where) the requirement has always been to input names per one's pp, perhaps the DHS/CBP are simply clarifying their rule.
Your terminology is somewhat inaccurate; there has been no 'ruling' as such. The term ruling implies that the matter has been considered by an authority and a decision was made. This, I believe, is not the case here. The online application form has been amended at some point; I believe this has happened as early as June 2018, though others have suggested October 2018. There has been no substantive decision on the matter, other than members of CBP advising members of the public that indeed their ESTA application should (now) include all first names and/or a middle name. What you refer to as an additional clarification has also been included on the online form as early as June 2018.
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Old 27 May 19, 08:03 PM  
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#172
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Originally Posted by hyte1 View Post
After a long period without a holiday in Orlando we have booked up again. Decided to be organised and get ESTA's on Saturday which were authorised in less than an hour. And now I read this thread today :-( We all have middle names, and no I did not include them on the ESTA.

I've already decided to re-apply for the ESTA's with our middle names included but the feel the ESTA website is very unclear on this matter.

The "First (Given) Name" field implys just that in a singular fashion. It would be more helpful if it was labelled "First Names" to at least give us a chance to realise they are asking for more than our first name!

It's not surprising that people miss out the help popup as... well we all assume we know what our first name is! Oh well, I'll splash out another £50 to correct the problem

Anyhow, annoying and frustrating but as I've applied for them this weekend I feel we need to re-apply. If I'd applied for them before the change was made I'd probably feel different.
Let us know what you decide to do and if you get any problems along the way as i have read on a different thread that some people couldn't do it, it kept getting rejected
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Old 27 May 19, 09:16 PM  
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#173
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Originally Posted by Lily8 View Post
Your terminology is somewhat inaccurate; there has been no 'ruling' as such. The term ruling implies that the matter has been considered by an authority and a decision was made. This, I believe, is not the case here. The online application form has been amended at some point; I believe this has happened as early as June 2018, though others have suggested October 2018. There has been no substantive decision on the matter, other than members of CBP advising members of the public that indeed their ESTA application should (now) include all first names and/or a middle name. What you refer to as an additional clarification has also been included on the online form as early as June 2018.
I would suggest that the position has clearly been considered and rulings made, be that during the crafting of the Travel promotion act of 2009, passing both houses, and signed into Law by Barack Obama which established the ESTA, or the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015 following the Paris attacks.

You're quite clear in suggesting that nobody with authority has considered the matter. That begs the question who you think decided to change it ? Only really leaving a scenario where "Dave" from IT just thought it would be better to get more info, which clearly is not the case.

I am really struggling to see the grounds on which you are being critical of ChrisS as for my money she would appear to be spot on. They are clarifying the rules, making sure everyone knows them before they start to enforce them.
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Old 27 May 19, 09:33 PM  
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#174
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Ive kept off this thread for a while but now this has been put on the esta it is quite clear instead of pressing the ? You canít really miss it if Iím honest .


If your middle name isnít on your passport then donít enter it , if it is then enter it .
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Old 27 May 19, 09:45 PM  
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Originally Posted by Lily8 View Post
Your terminology is somewhat inaccurate; there has been no 'ruling' as such. The term ruling implies that the matter has been considered by an authority and a decision was made. This, I believe, is not the case here. The online application form has been amended at some point; I believe this has happened as early as June 2018, though others have suggested October 2018. There has been no substantive decision on the matter, other than members of CBP advising members of the public that indeed their ESTA application should (now) include all first names and/or a middle name. What you refer to as an additional clarification has also been included on the online form as early as June 2018.
Excellent. But does all that matter? ChrisS has been trying to tell everyone to put middle names onto ESTAs to comply with the form. It is now even clearer.
So, to summarise, if you are applying for an ESTA donít forget middle name. Itís really that simple.
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Old 27 May 19, 10:01 PM  
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I completed our ESTAs recently and I would say it isn't clear at all. "First (Given) Name" and saying to add as per passport says to me that you add just your first given name (spelled as per the passport).

All ESTAs authorised but I didn't add middle names. Surely they will process at immigration based on the passport numbers and everything else!
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Old 27 May 19, 10:02 PM  
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Originally Posted by Lily8 View Post
Your terminology is somewhat inaccurate; there has been no 'ruling' as such. The term ruling implies that the matter has been considered by an authority and a decision was made. This, I believe, is not the case here. The online application form has been amended at some point; I believe this has happened as early as June 2018, though others have suggested October 2018. There has been no substantive decision on the matter, other than members of CBP advising members of the public that indeed their ESTA application should (now) include all first names and/or a middle name. What you refer to as an additional clarification has also been included on the online form as early as June 2018.
Yes, as stated by many, there's no definitive decision as to if/when the US expect ESTA/pp travel docs to name match, hence why many are content to travel on older ESTA's. It certainly seems a grey area as to when the application was amended, I've seen anything from March to June to Oct 2018.

Only recently read ESTA names/pp match was always required. Travelled on ESTA until 2012, never added hubs given/middle names, but then he's always been mis-matched!

Lily, this is the diagram and 'more info ?' that, apparently, recently appeared on the ESTA application, is this the one you saw circa June 2018?




Originally Posted by tomdan View Post
Let us know what you decide to do and if you get any problems along the way as i have read on a different thread that some people couldn't do it, it kept getting rejected
Hi tomdan, other Dibbers report if, after refusal, one continues on with the ESTA application, additional given names can be added at the point when one rechecks/edits the form.
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Old 27 May 19, 10:37 PM  
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Originally Posted by ChrisS View Post
Yes, as stated by many, there's no definitive decision as to if/when the US expect ESTA/pp travel docs to name match, hence why many are content to travel on older ESTA's. It certainly seems a grey area as to when the application was amended, I've seen anything from March to June to Oct 2018.

Only recently read ESTA names/pp match was always required. Travelled on ESTA until 2012, never added hubs given/middle names, but then he's always been mis-matched!

Lily, this is the diagram and 'more info ?' that, apparently, recently appeared on the ESTA application, is this the one you saw circa June 2018?






Hi tomdan, other Dibbers report if, after refusal, one continues on with the ESTA application, additional given names can be added at the point when one rechecks/edits the form.
I appreciate your civil response. There should be scope in this forum (and elsewhere) for civil exchange and I hope you read my post in the spirit it was intended.
Yes, this is the page I recall when applying on 5 June 2008. It is interesting that the CBP have been reluctant to quote a date for this amendment, hence my point that whilst the online form provides an amended implementation of the rule, the implications of this amendment have yet to result in a ruling (in the judicial sense) that existing ESTAs prior to a certain date are invalid.
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Old 27 May 19, 10:46 PM  
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Originally Posted by Lily8 View Post
I appreciate your civil response. There should be scope in this forum (and elsewhere) for civil exchange and I hope you read my post in the spirit it was intended.
Yes, this is the page I recall when applying on 5 June 2008. It is interesting that the CBP have been reluctant to quote a date for this amendment, hence my point that whilst the online form provides an amended implementation of the rule, the implications of this amendment have yet to result in a ruling (in the judicial sense) that existing ESTAs prior to a certain date are invalid.
The issue is that neither an ESTA granted before the change nor one granted after missing a middle name is invalid as the system will still approve it. People have reported applying for an ESTA recently missing out middle names and theyíve been approved.

Anyway, after all that, Iíve just checked my sisters and it turns out it does have her middle name on it. All that worry for nothing!
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Old 28 May 19, 12:43 AM  
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Originally Posted by Lily8 View Post
I appreciate your civil response. There should be scope in this forum (and elsewhere) for civil exchange and I hope you read my post in the spirit it was intended.
Yes, this is the page I recall when applying on 5 June 2008. It is interesting that the CBP have been reluctant to quote a date for this amendment, hence my point that whilst the online form provides an amended implementation of the rule, the implications of this amendment have yet to result in a ruling (in the judicial sense) that existing ESTAs prior to a certain date are invalid.
Likely the DHS/CBP will advise release date for implimentation of travel document match. My personal view, why I refer to 'ruling'; based on discovering ESTA/pp name match exists but, apparently, is currently not enforced, could signify any further ruling is unnecessary. Perhaps it's simply (I know, nothing is simple!) a case of the US now planning to enforce... only they know.

Originally Posted by sha9 View Post
The issue is that neither an ESTA granted before the change nor one granted after missing a middle name is invalid as the system will still approve it. People have reported applying for an ESTA recently missing out middle names and theyíve been approved.

Anyway, after all that, Iíve just checked my sisters and it turns out it does have her middle name on it. All that worry for nothing!
Hiya Lisa... some, who didn't complete full given names/load their UK pp onto the ESTA site, are confused as to why ESTA was approved post update. Apparently this is due to the US being unaware of traveller's given names until check-in/pp swipe.

Good news re sisters ESTA
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