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[Nimbus]

Originally Posted by Bianca

If they bring back the evening hours and evening parades for regular ticket holders, or, at least, resort guests, I might forgive them! [/COLOR]

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Interesting that you mention evening hours. I assume you mean Evening EMH?

At one point there weren't any evening EMH. Then Disney introduced them but you had to pay for them, they weren't free (although they weren't called EMH back then). Then (I think it was the early 2000s?) they included them for onsite guests. Now some onsite guests still get evening EMH but some don't, but do potentially have the option to pay for evening events - which is back to how things were pre-2000. Some people seem to think the pre-2000s were good and yet Disney has added EMH and fastpasses and so on since then.

If you mean park hours in general, pre-pandemic, I remember pointing out in the thread that the total number of operating hours had actually increased over time. Sure, MK might not open as late but the other parks (AK and HS generally) were opening earlier and closing later.

I think sometimes people ignore or forget the things that Disney has added and concentrate on the things that are taken away. They see the bad and miss the good.

[Bianca]

Originally Posted by Nimbus

Interesting that you mention evening hours. I assume you mean Evening EMH?

At one point there weren't any evening EMH. Then Disney introduced them but you had to pay for them, they weren't free (although they weren't called EMH back then). Then (I think it was the early 2000s?) they included them for onsite guests. Now some onsite guests still get evening EMH but some don't, but do potentially have the option to pay for evening events - which is back to how things were pre-2000. Some people seem to think the pre-2000s were good and yet Disney has added EMH and fastpasses and so on since then.

If you mean park hours in general, pre-pandemic, I remember pointing out in the thread that the total number of operating hours had actually increased over time. Sure, MK might not open as late but the other parks (AK and HS generally) were opening earlier and closing later.

I think sometimes people ignore or forget the things that Disney has added and concentrate on the things that are taken away. They see the bad and miss the good.

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Not parks in general, just MK, like I thought I mentioned.

And, I meant how, one way or another, the evenings at MK aren't available to regular ticketholders in the ways they were (whether it's the Hallowe'en and Xmas parties; shorter hours or the removal of EMH.)

However you look at it the joy of late evenings in MK isn't what it was. ...Especially without the regular evening parade.

What you describe about evenings at MK pre 2000 isn't my experience of visits in the 90s.

I'm sure it's true in life, generally, that we all gloss over some details in favour of others, but I don't think that's true in terms of MK evenings..

Mind you, I think it's fair to say that Disney has made it easier for loyal guests to lament various losses anyway. They have been quite 'brutal' about many of their changes to a tourist world built in great part on sentimentality.

[Nimbus]

Originally Posted by Bianca

Not parks in general, just MK, like I mentioned.

And, I meant how, one way or another, the evenings at MK aren't available to regular ticketholders in the ways they were (whether it's the Hallowe'en and Xmas parties; shorter hours or the removal of EMH.)

However you look at it the joy of late evenings in MK isn't what it was. ...Especially without the regular evening parade.

What you describe about evenings at MK pre 2000 isn't my experience of visits in the 90s.

I'm sure it's true in life, generally, that we all gloss over some details in favour of others, but that's not true in terms of my specific mention of MK evenings, which is why I highlighted it.

Mind you, I think it's fair to say that Disney has made it easier for loyal guests to lament various losses anyway. They have been quite 'brutal' about many of their changes to a tourist world built in great part on sentimentality.

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I must have missed where you mentioned evenings at MK specifically.

Were the Halloween and Christmas parties ever available to regular park quests? I always thought you needed special tickets. That's certainly been the case for the last several years and I'm assuming we're talking about fairly recent changes here.

As mentioned, EMH didn't used to be available to regular ticket holders. Then it was only available to those onsite - offsite guests needed to buy a ticket for the extra evening hours. Now they've limited EMH to only those onsite in deluxe resorts, but that is still more than was previously the case.

Have the park hours reduced at MK? Looking back at October 2018, the regular closing time was either 10pm or 6pm - so, on average 8pm. This year it closes at either 8:30pm or 9pm (or 11pm at the beginning of this month). Going back to 2010, MK would close at various times - sometimes 7pm, sometimes 9pm, occassionally 12am. So sometimes it closed earlier than it does now and sometimes later.

I know you were specifically talking about MK, but AK is now open 4 hours more every day than it was back in 2010 - an extra 3 hours in the evening. Hollywood Studios is now open 2 extra hours longer in the evening. Epcot is open 1 hour later in the evening now. So, MK might close a little earlier than it used to but the other parks are open later. Personally, I prefer that. I don't want the parks to stay open till midnight - 10pm is late enough for me.

I do agree about the loss of the evening parade though.

[Bianca]

Originally Posted by Nimbus

I must have missed where you mentioned evenings at MK specifically.(

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Ooops! Sorry. I thought I did.

[Bianca]

Originally Posted by Nimbus

...Were the Halloween and Christmas parties ever available to regular park quests? I always thought you needed special tickets. That's certainly been the case for the last several years and I'm assuming we're talking about fairly recent changes here.(

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No, but before the parties, especially before they started sooo early (Hallowe'en in August anyone?), the evenings were simply included in the opening hours to all ticketholders. Evening EMH were simply extensions back then, if memory serves.

[Nimbus]

Originally Posted by Bianca

No, but before the parties, especially before they started sooo early (Hallowe'en in August anyone?), the evenings were simply included in the opening hours to all ticketholders. Evening EMH were simply extensions back then, if memory serves.

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The evenings (when the parties aren't on) are still included in the opening hours to all ticketholders. And the parties have been going for the last 25 years.

So are we talking about the changes Disney have made over the last 30 years or so, or just the changes made recently in the last 2 years?

I only started going back in 1997 so I've never known a time when the Halloween parties weren't on, for example.

[linder]

My first visits were from 1996 and I don’t remember any party nights at Disney, the parade and fireworks were always on. We always went in October. We did stay and scream at universal horror nights. I thought the paid for party nights started later, could be wrong memory ain’t what it used to be

[loldis]

Originally Posted by linder

My first visits were from 1996 and I don’t remember any party nights at Disney, the parade and fireworks were always on. We always went in October. We did stay and scream at universal horror nights. I thought the paid for party nights started later, could be wrong memory ain’t what it used to be

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Not So Scary started in 95, but it was only on Halloween itself and after park close. Which is probably why you don't remember it, it had fairly minimal impact on the parks in the early years. The crazy number of dates and closing the park early is fairly recent, I'd say it really only started ramping up over the past decade.

[Bianca]

Originally Posted by Nimbus

The evenings (when the parties aren't on) are still included in the opening hours to all ticketholders. And the parties have been going for the last 25 years.

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I know they are, but when you calculate how many parties they hold, now (and how that crams everyone else into fewer evenings), along with shorter evening hours anyway and, then, the subtraction of late night EMH anymore for resort guests -- MK evenings aren't what they were ...and they used to be so good.

Originally Posted by Nimbus

...So are we talking about the changes Disney have made over the last 30 years or so, or just the changes made recently in the last 2 years?

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Longer than two years, certainly.

The parties may have started in the mid nineties, but they were few and far between.

A little bit of googling took me to the bestoforlando website, who say,

1995 One Hallowe'en party night
1997 Two nights
1999 Three nights

So not much of an impact in the nineties, really.

By 2003 it was ten nights.
2005 Fifteen nights
2013 Twenty-three nights
2019 Thirty six nights (this last number came from the disneyfoodblog)

That's a lot of evenings not available to other guests, who don't even have a night-time parade anymore. I know it spreads crowds out and I know it makes Disney lots more dollars, I'm just lamenting the loss of lots of relaxed evenings and some very late nights in MK with an amazing parade and, just, a great atmosphere.

[Bianca]

Originally Posted by Nimbus

...I know you were specifically talking about MK, but AK is now open 4 hours more every day than it was back in 2010 - an extra 3 hours in the evening. Hollywood Studios is now open 2 extra hours longer in the evening. Epcot is open 1 hour later in the evening now. So, MK might close a little earlier than it used to but the other parks are open later. Personally, I prefer that. I don't want the parks to stay open till midnight - 10pm is late enough for me.

I do agree about the loss of the evening parade though.

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I haven't experienced evenings at AK. That does sound like a plus, I agree. Epcot's hours have varied over time, I think. MK's, too, to be fair. I do like really late nights at MK, though! It's a different world then.

If you look at the dates of the Hallowe'en party, for example, at MK in 2019...

August – 16, 20, 23, 27 and 30
September – 2, 6, 8, 10, 13, 15, 17, 20, 22, 24, 27 and 29
October – 1, 3, 4, 6, 8, 10, 11, 14, 15, 17, 18, 20, 21, 24, 25, 27, 29 and 31
November 1

...Evenings for everyone else were very limited in October (and not great in September). It must have made the remaining evenings much busier, too.

I am incredibly glad I got to experience Disney when it was a more relaxed and spontaneous experience. I don't know if I'll ever go back, but I don't think it would be the main focus of a trip anymore, having changed in that way.

Nimbus, I do appreciate you highlighting the other side of the argument, though, because, in the end, it's never all good or all bad and it pays to remember that.