Boeing 737 MAX 8 -

[Blue nose]

Originally Posted by PPM

Here is the full list of Airlines who have them
boeing/commercial/737max/#/customers.

As they are short haul, they won’t be used on transatlantic flights, so if you are Florida bound, you can relax if you were worried.

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Thank you. We've got a week in Fuerventura with Jet2 which was the concern plus the US. Checked and I'm ok.

[Loftus]

I think it's premature to dismiss the Lion Air crash as purely pilot error. I'm by no means an expert, but reading up on the incident it looks like Boeing and the FAA have some questions to answer.
Boeing fitted new anti-stall software, maneuvering characteristics augmentation system (MCAS), to the new aircraft because the positioning of the new, heavier engines makes the aircraft more prone to stalling. However they, and the FAA, determined that because the plane was so close in type to previous 737 models pilots did not need to be informed about the changes and did not need extensive retraining, including simulator time.
This NYT article highlights the issue...

nytimes/2019/02/03/w...sh-pilots.html

The Ethiopian Airlines aircraft seems to have exhibited the same erratic flight pattern as the Lion Air crash, although it's obviously far too early to draw any conclusions from that.

[munmun]

Originally Posted by Loftus

I think it's premature to dismiss the Lion Air crash as purely pilot error. I'm by no means an expert, but reading up on the incident it looks like Boeing and the FAA have some questions to answer.
Boeing fitted new anti-stall software, maneuvering characteristics augmentation system (MCAS), to the new aircraft because the positioning of the new, heavier engines makes the aircraft more prone to stalling. However they, and the FAA, determined that because the plane was so close in type to previous 737 models pilots did not need to be informed about the changes and did not need extensive retraining, including simulator time.
This NYT article highlights the issue...

nytimes/2019/02/03/w...sh-pilots.html

The Ethiopian Airlines aircraft seems to have exhibited the same erratic flight pattern as the Lion Air crash, although it's obviously far too early to draw any conclusions from that.

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Yes I do agree, I think pilot error covers a lot of things including lack of training and experience. I have read a lot of articles including one that states that this is the only aircraft with one particular set of switches which I think (don’t quote me as I am not an aviation expert) are the only set which are down when they are off unlike any other Boeing aircraft.

It’s a difficult subject.

[Omega1]

Originally Posted by PPM

First plane was pilot error, so discount that one.

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I don’t think it is accurate to say the Lion Air crash was due to pilot error. The final report hasn’t been published but the preliminary report published in November has referenced several potential factors and how they interlink. As usual with plane crashes, it’s complicated and rarely down to a single factor.
I know very little about such things but investigation reports refer to faulty sensors (angle of and attack and air speed) one of which was changed prior to the previous flight. The pilot of the the previous flight experienced similar issues with automatic systems potentially responding to faulty sensors and pushing the aircraft’s nose down. The pilot managed to control the aircraft on that occasion but was sufficiently concerned to declare ‘pan pan’ which is the level of alert just below Mayday. Interestingly, the Indonesian authorities have declared that the plane was not airworthy on the flight prior to the crash.
The increasing number of airlines voluntarily grounding the Max aircraft gives significant cause for concern.

[400ixl]

Boeing are issuing a software update
uk.reuters/article/uk-et...-idUKKBN1QT055

and

telegraph/news/201...-ground-plane/

[Guest]

Mmm. Will be interesting what approach the operating remaining airlines do with thier Max 8s before the software upgrade.

I appreciate Boeing are not directly relating this to the recent tragic events. However, as a passenger I wouldn't be happy to drive around in a car that had a recognised and necessary design / safety upgrade offered by the manufacturer and, more importantly mandated, by the governing safety body, until it was done.

I feel even more hesitant to go in an aircraft with a software problem esp if it was something like anti-stall, altitude control issues which seems to be the current rumour.

The risks are too great, for operating companies, apparently for airport's, and potentially for passengers for using them in the interim I would have thought.

[Omega1]

Originally Posted by FamilyGWales

Mmm. Will be interesting what approach the operating remaining airlines do with thier Max 8s before the software upgrade.

I appreciate Boeing are not directly relating this to the recent tragic events. However, as a passenger I wouldn't be happy to drive around in a car that had a design / safety upgrade offered by the manufacturer and more importantly mandated by the governing safety body, until it was done.

I feel even more hesitant to go in an aircraft with a software problem esp if it was something like anti-stall, altitude control issues which seems to be the current rumour.

The risks are too great, for operating companies, and passengers.

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It’s not just you that would be unhappy, Australia has now grounded Max8 aircraft.

[Loulou127]

Originally Posted by PPM

First plane was pilot error, so discount that one.

If Boeing had the slightest issue on their planes they would be grounded now worldwide.

At this time there will be so many pre flight checks rigorously performed on these airframes, that the ones that fly will be as safe as any other plane.

For example: We all happily fly on a 747 Jumbo and there’s been 15 crashes during their lifetime. I fly on these too with no worries.


My opinion of course. I can appreciate folks concerns and you all need to do what you are comfortable with .

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Appreciate your thoughts PPM, but if we talk percentages how many flights over how many years have the 747’s being flying compared with this 737 max 8, I know which one I’m more comfortable with, again like yourself just my opinion x

[stormflm595]

"What's more, Boeing issued a bulletin after the Indonesian accident alerting pilots that the plane might initiate a dive on its own and reminding them that a pair of switches in the cockpit can disable the motor that pushes the nose down."

Sorry, but if Boeing know that there is a potential flaw with the systems causing the plane to dive, and still haven't grounded them then I am not flying on this model in May. I'd rather lose the money (which is not that much to be honest as it's a package holiday split between 10 of us) than potentially fly in an unsafe plane.

[RickT]

if you have an interest reading about stuff like this, follow the threads on airliners.net

airliners/forum/viewforum.php?f=3